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I found this one quite interesting and intriguing. The special order feature of matting is a favorite of mine on any old Winchester lever rifle. The raised rib feature brings this up a sizeable notch for me. I have seen far more barrels that were simply matted vs. “raised.” I find it interesting that the factory ledger seems to make no distinction. By the way, I love the way the caliber is stamped on either side of the rib.
We had several threads dealing with sights that letter. This one is particularly intriguing given the ledger does indeed list the sights: “Sights: Sights as per letter”. So, the sights do indeed letter? Does that spirit level look original (doesn’t to me)? It makes me think there should have been a tang sight. But of course, where’s the letter!?
RIA’s description mentioned small “D.O.K.” stamped on each side of the stock. I did not see this but did see those initials stamped in the barrel rib (not mentioned in their description).
I would truly love to see the, “letter” that must have come from the original purchaser. Not only to see what sights he specified but also see how he specified the other features. For example, did he specify a raised matted rib? Clearly, much thought went into the ordering of this rifle
To me, this rifle has a lot of appeal. Not only is it a .50 caliber M76, but it is deluxe, with engraving and with some other rare and unusual special order features. 
I am curious what the rest of you think.
And a link would be helpful:
https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/74/8/exceptionally-rare-and-well-documented-special-order
Steve,
The written description “raised matte rib” is bogus in my opinion. The pictures show that it simply has a matted barrel. The only thing that is “raised” is the knurling… it does not have a “rib”.
The D.OK. marking on the barrel is indeed mentioned in RIAs description (the end of the second sentence).
I believe that the notation “sights as per letter” on the factory letter means that Winchester supplied the sights as specified by the person who ordered the rifle. That “letter” would not be available today.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
mrcvs said
And a link would be helpful:https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/74/8/exceptionally-rare-and-well-documented-special-order
Yes, the link was very helpful 🙂
Bert – yes, in re-reading the description, I see DOK is mentioned in the description. My impression had been that the barrel was simply matted with no raised rib. When I looked closely at the second to last photo of the rifle, I tentatively changed my opinion. I think I see a rib – but it isn’t very high.
My main concern with the rifle is the spirit level. I don’t think it is original. Were I pursuing the rifle, a huge appeal is the special order matting (assuming I am correct and there is a rib there as well). To have my most desired feature, cut into – and I might mention through the barrel address as well – is a serious detriment for me. How do others feel about it?
Steve,
I see no evidence of a “raised” rib, and as I mentioned in my reply to Chuck, Winchester did indeed stamp the address on top of the matting. I personally don’t care for it either, but it is factory original work. What is not correct is the extra dovetail slot (for the Lyman No. 18 Spirit level) that is cut through the address stamp. That was definitely added after the fact.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
If the barrel is round, and the matting is flat (at least thats how it looks, maybe its got a little radius to it), it would give the appearance of being raised or ribbed because you would have a step between the round and the flater matting–at least thats how it looks from the pics provided. Granted the pics arent that great, had they wanted to accentuate that aspect they should have taken a pic from a side angle instead of straight above. Later models with matted round barrels (at least those Ive seen) do not have any kind of “rib” or step, the matting is cut into the round of the barrel. But would agree, its not what most folks would call a rib.
1892takedown @sbcglobal.net ......NRA Endowment Life Member.....WACA Member
"God is great.....beer is good.....and people are crazy"... Billy Currington
I believe this rifle was sold by RIA about Ten years ago around 2008 with no mention or closeup pictures at that time of the extra rear dovetail through the barrel address. I don’t know what it sold for back then. But it looks like they pretty much copied and pasted the old auction listing with some slight variation in wording.
What is interesting to me is the differences in the pictures used in the auction listings. The old listing pictures are much lighter, you can tell the bluing loss much more easily on the barrel. The newer listing the photos are much darker on the overall views. And the receiver closeups appears lighter, as it appears more bluing is visible on the loading gate than the older listing. Just goes to show how photo lighting can really effect the view and overall look of a gun. Which is why seeing it in person is always best. I’ve convinced a good skilled photographer can make a poorer condition gun look to be in a better condition than it actually is in.
Sincerely,
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
November 7, 2015
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Very interesting rifle. I wonder if the metal was relieved a bit around the matting to give the illusion of a “rib”? I think some matting processes displaced metal but this looks like more than that. That’s what it looks like to me, anyway. It’s a shame someone saw fit to add the level. IMHO it was a pretty spectacular rifle up until that point.
This is another item where the pictures may or may not do it justice.
Mike
I heard back from RIA:
Top of barrel is matted, but the rise is minimal, less than an eighth of an inch.
Hmmm… “less than an eighth of an inch”… sounds like it looks like a shallow rib to me but I remain perplexed. Anyone going to the auction? It would be nice if someone could lay their hands on it. I know I would like to.
If a gun letters with a raised rib matt barrel they made the barrel with a shaping mill to give it the raised rib and if they say its less than a 1/8″, even a 1/16″ that would be a substantial raise. You can’t compare it to a shotgun raised rib.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Yes, I realize you can’t compare it to a shotgun rib. I believe the letter simply says matted barrel. Sure would like to run my finger over it. I’ve seen plenty (most) and the barrel is simply matted – no raise of any kind. The intrigues me.
I have seen/investigated this in the past; one in particular was an 1876 ½ round barrel with full matting on the top flat. The matting on that rifle was continuous, with no break at the octagon to round transition point. I looked at that barrel for some time, as I could not figure out how it was executed…Pre CNC.
What I realized is that Winchester silver brazed a very thin (.015-.02) “rib” on the barrel then matted that. The solder seam was completely invisible, and the matting hid any indication of the very tiny seam.
Beautifully executed!
I believe that is what you are seeing here.
Mike Hunter said
I have seen/investigated this in the past; one in particular was an 1876 ½ round barrel with full matting on the top flat. The matting on that rifle was continuous, with no break at the octagon to round transition point. I looked at that barrel for some time, as I could not figure out how it was executed…Pre CNC.What I realized is that Winchester silver brazed a very thin (.015-.02) “rib” on the barrel then matted that. The solder seam was completely invisible, and the matting hid any indication of the very tiny seam.
Beautifully executed!
I believe that is what you are seeing here.
Mike –
I very much appreciate your input and experience on this. I continue to be impressed with the amazing amount of collective knowledge and experience found on this forum. It sure seems you have hit the nail on the head regarding the, “rib” on this rifle. It also reinforces the admiration I feel for the craftsman who worked at the Winchester plant back when these wonderful rifles we made.
Folks,
I looked at the rifle in question on Thursday. To my eyes, at least, the matting was but a fine tooling on top of the round barrel. I could not detect any “rib” per se, either by eye or by finger nail. Understand, please, I find I need more and more help with magnification these days. While using the magnification I looked at the level that was dovetailed into the barrel. It looked to be more modern fitted and executed. Something had been applied to the dovetail that “yellowed” the surface, and I do mean yellow.
Tim
tim tomlinson said
Folks,I looked at the rifle in question on Thursday. To my eyes, at least, the matting was but a fine tooling on top of the round barrel. I could not detect any “rib” per se, either by eye or by finger nail. Understand, please, I find I need more and more help with magnification these days. While using the magnification I looked at the level that was dovetailed into the barrel. It looked to be more modern fitted and executed. Something had been applied to the dovetail that “yellowed” the surface, and I do mean yellow.
Tim
Tim – thank your for your effort and reporting back. That’s exactly what I wanted to know. There is nothing like actual hands-on time with a piece. Yup, if your finger nail can’t detect a rib, there is no rib. That dovetail cut is a huge detractor for me. Your report of the “yellow” doesn’t make it any better, that’s for sure.
Let me add – watching it sell a short while ago, I was not surprised to see it sell way below the auction estimate.
Let me add – watching it sell a short while ago, I was not surprised to see it sell way below the auction estimate.
Which was? Both estimate and final price.
Online
mrcvs said
Let me add – watching it sell a short while ago, I was not surprised to see it sell way below the auction estimate.
Which was? Both estimate and final price.
Estimate 18 to 25k, Hammered at 9.5k. Maybe sold, but probably not. T/R
The low hammer price could be partially a function of low attendance.This gun was “sold” Friday morning, maybe? With reserves normally set close to the low reserve, it probably didn’t sell and you will see it in another auction. Move this gun to Saturday and maybe it sells. Attendance would improve if all guns were no reserve Friday morning and Sunday afternoon. T/R
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