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I’m surprised the factory letter refers to the double set trigger just as a “set” trigger. Seems to me that would refer to a single set trigger. Is that perhaps why it was returned to the factory–e.g., to convert a single set trigger to a double set trigger?
I don’t know how a single set trigger and a double set trigger would letter and maybe they letter one and the same thereby rendering my theory invalid.
mrcvs said
I’m surprised the factory letter refers to the double set trigger just as a “set” trigger. Seems to me that would refer to a single set trigger. Is that perhaps why it was returned to the factory–e.g., to convert a single set trigger to a double set trigger?I don’t know how a single set trigger and a double set trigger would letter and maybe they letter one and the same thereby rendering my theory invalid.
I’m not a Model 94 expert, but I don’t think you could get a single set trigger for the Model 94. I don’t recall ever seeing a single set trigger on a 94.
Any 94 experts wanna chime in?
Sincerely,
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
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January 26, 2011
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All the 1894’s I’ve seen (with a set trigger) were of the Double Set style. They letter as simply “Set”.
~Gary~
tionesta1 said
It has a 24″ barrel. I suppose that was what it was returned for.
I suppose so too. Most would, but not all. The lack of information in the letter (i.e. what the R & R was for) leaves the door open for the obsessive-compulsive collector to cast doubt. I’ve seen it happen (i.e. when the R&R is obvious). I’ve found it quite annoying when it does.
Anyway, let me reiterate my position – that it is a beautiful rifle with great special order features and high condition. I one-hundred percent believe it is all original. It’s in a very cool chambering too 🙂
steve004 said
I suppose so too. Most would, but not all. The lack of information in the letter (i.e. what the R & R was for) leaves the door open for the obsessive-compulsive collector to cast doubt. I’ve seen it happen (i.e. when the R&R is obvious). I’ve found it quite annoying when it does.
Anyway, let me reiterate my position – that it is a beautiful rifle with great special order features and high condition. I one-hundred percent believe it is all original. It’s in a very cool chambering too 🙂
All the correct measurements for the front sight dove tail to muzzle, and magazine hanger are correct to support that the R&R was for a 24″ barrel.
Here is a factory letter for my 1894 deluxe that does state why it was returned.
Online
tionesta1 said
Here is a factory letter for my 1894 deluxe that does state why it was returned.
Another case of a gun with a more interesting history because it WAS returned for modifications that made it a better rifle.
tionesta1 said
All the correct measurements for the front sight dove tail to muzzle, and magazine hanger are correct to support that the R&R was for a 24″ barrel.
As you, most here, and me would interpret, it is obvious that the R&R is for the 24 inch barrel. However, in our collecting world out there, the term, “obvious” is applied in a variety of scenarios. One man’s obvious is not another man’s obvious. Below, I’m posting a photo of a letter on a fancy M1886 I have. This rifle has a return and repair. This rifle sits, as the letter specifies, with one exception. There is no checkering. It is not undersized at the tangs and I believe the checkering was carefully removed. Upon very close inspection I can see a hint of the old checkering in a few spots. When I purchased the rifle, the seller provided a confident assurance that the checkering was removed at the factory – during the R&R. He felt his argument was extremely logical and hence it was, “obvious.” His argument was that there was nothing else different or changed on the rifle – hence that HAD TO BE the change the factory made. There are endless shades of gray when it comes to this topic.
By the way, I’m sure no one will be surprised that this rifle has a shotgun butt 😉
tionesta1 said
Here is a factory letter for my 1894 deluxe that does state why it was returned.
That is a stunningly beautiful rifle with many rare features. A true prize. As far as rarity goes, that museum letter is of equal rarity. I have seen hundreds of letters over the years and have almost never seen that level of explanation for an R&R. In fact, a one or two word explanation for an R&R is very rare. I would say about 99% of the letters I’ve seen that list an R&R, list nothing beyond the dates involved and maybe an order number.
mrcvs said
I’m surprised the factory letter refers to the double set trigger just as a “set” trigger. Seems to me that would refer to a single set trigger. Is that perhaps why it was returned to the factory–e.g., to convert a single set trigger to a double set trigger?I don’t know how a single set trigger and a double set trigger would letter and maybe they letter one and the same thereby rendering my theory invalid.
The set trigger on Al’s Model 1894 was the only type that was offered, and was simply referred to as a “Set” trigger. It is not truly a “double-set” trigger. Winchester referred to it as a close-coupled set trigger. The only true “double-set” trigger Winchester made was for the Model 1885 Single Shot rifles, and it was most frequently found on the Schuetzen rifles (though it could be special ordered on any high-wall manufactured in or after the year 1897).
Bert
Winchester double-set trigger
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Maverick said
I’m not a Model 94 expert, but I don’t think you could get a single set trigger for the Model 94. I don’t recall ever seeing a single set trigger on a 94.
Any 94 experts wanna chime in?
Sincerely,
Maverick
Correct… The Model 1894 was only available with a close-coupled set trigger (colloquially referred to by many as a “double-set” trigger).
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
mrcvs said
I’m surprised the factory letter refers to the double set trigger just as a “set” trigger. Seems to me that would refer to a single set trigger. Is that perhaps why it was returned to the factory–e.g., to convert a single set trigger to a double set trigger?I don’t know how a single set trigger and a double set trigger would letter and maybe they letter one and the same thereby rendering my theory invalid.
The set trigger on Al’s Model 1894 was the only type that was offered, and was simply referred to as a “Set” trigger. It is not truly a “double-set” trigger. Winchester referred to it as a close-coupled set trigger. The only true “double-set” trigger Winchester made was for the Model 1885 Single Shot rifles, and it was most frequently found on the Schuetzen rifles (though it could be special ordered on any high-wall manufactured in or after the year 1897).
Bert
Winchester double-set trigger
Learn something new every day! I have a Winchester 1885 with a single set trigger and did not realize it was specific to that model only. So, now the question is why is that so? And, why would a close coupled set trigger be more or less desirable than a single set trigger?
mrcvs said
Learn something new every day! I have a Winchester 1885 with a single set trigger and did not realize it was specific to that model only. So, now the question is why is that so? And, why would a close coupled set trigger be more or less desirable than a single set trigger?
The 1885 could come with any of the 3 set triggers. Single set, close set and double set. Of course the close set has 2 triggers but they are close to each other not far apart like the double set.
Chuck said
The 1885 could come with any of the 3 set triggers. Single set, close set and double set. Of course the close set has 2 triggers but they are close to each other not far apart like the double set.
Another distinction is that the single-set and close-coupled set triggers require pushing the trigger in the opposite (forward) direction to engage the “set” feature. When the trigger is in the set position on the close-coupled set trigger, the two trigger pieces appear to become one (the rear is in direct contact with the front). On the Double-set trigger, the rearmost trigger is first pulled to the rear (which causes the front trigger to move to the set position), and then the forward trigger is pulled to the rear to fire the rifle. I much prefer the double-set trigger over the close-coupled set trigger, but it was an extra $6 versus just $2 extra for the close-coupled set trigger.
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
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