The Winchester "WP" and "Oval P" markings|Page 2|Winchester Rifles|Forum|Winchester Collector

I find this thread full of very interesting information.  Thanks to everyone who has contributed to it. 

For you gents that make and archive research notes for later use in publication efforts or for personal reasons, here is much of what Schwing has already stated in his book regarding the Model 1890 and proof marks: 1)  First Three Barrel Stampings; 2)  Proof Mark Application During Manufacturing Process; 3)  First Use of Proof Marks, and; 4) When Replacement Barrels Show Both Proof Marks.

1 –  First Three Barrel Stampings

On page 99:  “It was not until 1908 that Winchester began to use its well-known Definitive Proof Mark: ‘the symbol of Winchester quality.’  The first barrel stamping Winchester employed on it barrels, other than the roll die markings and caliber stampings, was the use of the letters ‘O.F.’ stamped on the underside of the barrel.  This was done by the factory to enable them to ascertain if the barrels were fitted at the factory or outside the factory.  The practice of stamping the barrels with ‘O.F.’ began in late 1902.  [Footnote 19, i.e. H. Fallon to C.H Griffith, Nov. 2, 1902.  Inter-company correspondence, Winchester Repeating Arms Company, Winchester Arms Archives, Cody Firearms Museum.]  This stamping was used until May 1913 when Winchester then stamped a ‘P’ in a circle on the barrel to signify that barrels had been sent out from the mail order department. [Footnote 20, i.e. C.E. Blizard  to M.A. Robinson, June 5, 1941, Winchester Repeating Arms Company inter-company correspondence, Winchester Arms Collection Archives, Cody forearms Museum.]  Winchester began the practice of using its Definitive Proof Mark on .22 caliber rifle barrels in July 1908.”   

2- Proof Mark Application During Manufacturing Process

On page 54: “A close up view of the hand-stamped Winchester proof Marks.  Notice that the proof mark stamped on the receiver has lost some of its blue.  This is not an unusual occurrence due to the fact that the receiver was stamped after it was blued, causing some of the blue to flake.  The proof mark on the barrel was stamped before the barrel was blued giving a more uniform appearance.”  

3 –  First Use of Proof Marks

On page 52: “Another discernable change occurred on the Third Model in October 1908; The Winchester proof mark was stamped on the receiver.  This change would have begun to appear around serial number 309,800.  After a thorough examination of the factory records, it is possible to see Model 90s with proof marks on the receiver and barrel prior to this date.  This is likely because if an early rifle were sent back to the factory to be repaired or refinished after October 1908, then the proof mark would be stamped on the receiver.  The mail order proof stamp was not placed on receivers sent out from the mail order department until May 31, 1913.”  [Footnote 6, i.e. C.E. Blizard  to M.A. Robinson, June 5, 1941, Winchester Repeating Arms Company inter-company correspondence, Winchester Arms Collection Archives, Cody forearms Museum.] 

4 – When Replacement Barrels Show Both Proof Marks

On page 109: “Since the Model 62 was introduced in 1932, round barrel Model 1890s built prior to that date will have had the round barrel fitted at the factory as a replacement barrel.  Replacement barrels fitted at the factory will have only the Winchester proof mark on the barrel.  Round barrels that were sent by the factory to gunsmiths as replacement barrels will have the mail order proof mark, a ‘P’ in a circle, stamped by the factory to signify outside fitting. This mail order stamp will appear in addition to the standard Winchester proof mark.”

Although the above quote is connected with Model 90 Round Barrel Markings that show both proof marks on the barrel, it stands to reason that the same policy would apply to other unusual, non-standard proof marking situations, such as a replacement barrel being sent to Australia, as JWA’s copy of Blizard’s correspondence appears to fully support.  Also, see Lammerlaw’s post at rimfirecentral.com at the below link, and take a look at the pictures he has provided there showing the underside of four Model 1890 octagon barrels, one of which shows both the mail order proof mark and the standard Winchester proof mark.  Additionally, observe that none of the markings on any of these barrels show the circled VP mark. This last note might well be why the information that Bert posted in reference to “How Winchester Barrels Are Tested”, and the reason why “All barrels are proved with either of the above systems except .22 caliber.”  RFC link: http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=558364&page=2   

James

JWA said

JWM94,

Thanks for posting that compendium of Schwings research, it makes a nice tidy reference. 

The 1941 CE Blizard  letter I previosly posted is the one Schwing references in #1 (footnote 20) and #3 (footnote 6).  I think I also have a copy of the inter-company correspondence he references in #1 (footnote 19) which I will scan and post here when I get a chance.

Again, thanks for posting the info and enriching this thread.

Best Regards,

JWA,

You’re very welcome, and thank you for the positive comments.   Hopefully, you do have a copy of the correspondence in reference to the subject footnote 19 and post it up, too, as I’m sure a lot of people would enjoy seeing it.

James