Log In
November 19, 2006
Offline
I’ve looked through Bert’s wonderful single-shot data (published in the winter, 2021 WACA magazine) many times. Given the vast array of chamberings that were both offered and ordered over the years, the list he generated is fascinating to go through. An item that caught my eye today was the 47 rifles in .40-60 Marlin. As this cartridge is essentially the same as the .40-65 Winchester, it is a puzzle why these were ordered. It would be interesting to know how different the case dimensions and bore diameter were from the .40-65. Possibly they took a standard .40-65 barrel and stamped it .40-60 Marlin?
A possible clue in this scenario is a Winchester musket I saw offered for sale in .40-60 Marlin in 1985. It was described as one of 12 made that were shipped to Paraguay. At the time, it was the only one known to make it back to the U.S.
This musket was described as having an, “early thick side” receiver, original bayonet and ramrod, original sights and sling swivels. It was accompanied by a factory letter (I don’t have a copy) and the seller described it as appearing to having been shipped in the white.
I find it fascinating to ponder who in Paraguay ordered it (government would be a likely candidate) and why they selected the Marlin chambering? There is so much lost to history. I would have loved to have heard the discussion that led to the selection of the Marlin chambering. Maybe someone had a Model 1881 Marlin in .40-60 and really liked it? Who knows – but it would be very satisfying to know more.
Bert – I assume you were aware of the .40-60 muskets?
April 15, 2005
Online
Steve,
Yes, fully aware. Winchester manufactured a total of (25) center fire Muskets in the 40-60 Marlin chambering.
This is the caliber marking on Musket S/N 24503.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
November 19, 2006
Offline
Bert H. said
Steve,
Yes, fully aware. Winchester manufactured a total of (25) center fire Muskets in the 40-60 Marlin chambering.
This is the caliber marking on Musket S/N 24503.Bert
Thanks Bert –
I figured you were aware. Do you happen to know if some were shipped in the white? And some were shipped to Paraguay? In other words, any further clues in the ledgers about them?
May 23, 2009
Offline
steve004 said
As this cartridge is essentially the same as the .40-65 Winchester, it is a puzzle why these were ordered. It would be interesting to know how different the case dimensions and bore diameter were from the .40-65. Possibly they took a standard .40-65 barrel and stamped it .40-60 Marlin?
As to the actual manufacturing process between the two calibers and rifle chambers, I have no idea.
They are essentially the same and my understanding is the brass case is the same. What does make them different from each other is the Bullet Design.
The Marlin has more of a rounded end bullet VS the 40-65 WCF is more flat / squared off. You can easily see this when comparing factory ammunition.
Also notably the Winchester Bullet Molds are noticeably different being cherried differently. The marlin has more rounded grease grooves VS the 40-65 is flat / squared off as well.
Sincerely,
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
April 15, 2005
Online
steve004 said
Bert H. said
Steve,
Yes, fully aware. Winchester manufactured a total of (25) center fire Muskets in the 40-60 Marlin chambering.
This is the caliber marking on Musket S/N 24503.
Bert
Thanks Bert –
I figured you were aware. Do you happen to know if some were shipped in the white? And some were shipped to Paraguay? In other words, any further clues in the ledgers about them?
None of them are listed as being in the white, and the ledger records do not list where they were shipped. With the exception of two Muskets assembled in October 1889, the rest of them were all received in the warehouse in the year 1888.
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
November 19, 2006
Offline
Maverick said
steve004 said
As this cartridge is essentially the same as the .40-65 Winchester, it is a puzzle why these were ordered. It would be interesting to know how different the case dimensions and bore diameter were from the .40-65. Possibly they took a standard .40-65 barrel and stamped it .40-60 Marlin?
As to the actual manufacturing process between the two calibers and rifle chambers, I have no idea.
They are essentially the same and my understanding is the brass case is the same. What does make them different from each other is the Bullet Design.
The Marlin has more of a rounded end bullet VS the 40-65 WCF is more flat / squared off. You can easily see this when comparing factory ammunition.
Also notably the Winchester Bullet Molds are noticeably different being cherried differently. The marlin has more rounded grease grooves VS the 40-65 is flat / squared off as well.Sincerely,
Maverick
Thanks Maverick – very interesting. My knowledge is expanded!
Also of interest is the .40-60-260 Colt and the .40-70 Bullard is basically the same cartridge as the .40-60 Marlin and the .40-65 Winchester. I should know as my Colt Express rifle in .40-60, Bullard .40-70, Marlin M1881 .40-60, Winchester M1886 .40-65 and and Marlin M1895 .40-65 – I’ve used my same set of dies, same cases and bullets for all the rifles I just named.
Ironically, the .40-60 Winchester is out of sync. with all of the above, with the M1876 Winchester, Whitney-Kennedy and Winchester single-shot being the only ones (that I can think of) sharing that cartridge.
