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I’m in the market for a very good condition winchester 94 SRC. The closest specimen that I found was this one from Don Grove at the Winchester Grove. Are the premiums on his guns reasonable? This SRC is in really good shape, is there any way to tell if it has been restored?
http://thewinchestergrove.com/1894/858xxx.htm
Looking at the pictures it looks to be restored.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
The stocks are gumwood, and typically they are not that dark in color. While it might just be the camera angle and lighting, the butt stock looks slightly undersized at the fit to the butt plate. The blued steel parts look like original finish to me, but it would help to see a close up picture showing the proof mark stamps.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
His prices are crazy high and a high percentage of his guns are re-done. There’s a number of other dealers handling unmolested guns for fair prices…
winchesterbob said
His prices are crazy high and a high percentage of his guns are re-done. There’s a number of other dealers handling unmolested guns for fair prices…
I disagree with your perception that a high percentage of their guns are “re-done”. Over the past many years, I have inspected (during my researcxh surveys) at least a few hundred of the Winchesters they have sold or still have, and with only a very few exceptions, they were/are factory original.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
I disagree with your perception that a high percentage of their guns are “re-done”. Over the past many years, I have inspected (during my researcxh surveys) at least a few hundred of the Winchesters they have sold or still have, and with only a very few exceptions, they were/are factory original.
Bert
Grove has more high condition Winchesters for sale than other Internet sellers…maybe because of his prices he’s owned them longer?
January 26, 2011
Offline
I have to agree with Bert on this one. I’ve perused Dons tables for many years now at Cody and Denver. His inventory seems to be good original examples and he always has a nice variety. Its possible that something sneaks in once in a while that has been worked on but that’s with most large volume dealers. The Groves are very proud of their guns for sale and I don’t think he intentionally keeps re-worked guns in his selection. His prices are toward the high end, but quite often, he is the only dealer at the show with certain variations. A while back, I was trying to negotiate the price on a nice Model 65 218 Bee with Don. He wasn’t willing to budge much, and said try to find another one in this condition at the show. I will say that I’ve yet to buy anything from Don, but he always has something I want. If I had a little larger checkbook, I would buy something from him at every show. I look forward to seeing him at the Denver show in a few weeks.
FYI – They have just recently reduced prices on a large number of their internet listings. Maybe they are ready to clean house on some of that inventory.
~Gary~
pdog72 said
I have to agree with Bert on this one. I’ve perused Dons tables for many years now at Cody and Denver. His inventory seems to be good original examples and he always has a nice variety. Its possible that something sneaks in once in a while that has been worked on but that’s with most large volume dealers. The Groves are very proud of their guns for sale and I don’t think he intentionally keeps re-worked guns in his selection. His prices are toward the high end, but quite often, he is the only dealer at the show with certain variations. A while back, I was trying to negotiate the price on a nice Model 65 218 Bee with Don. He wasn’t willing to budge much, and said try to find another one in this condition at the show. I will say that I’ve yet to buy anything from Don, but he always has something I want. If I had a little larger checkbook, I would buy something from him at every show. I look forward to seeing him at the Denver show in a few weeks.
FYI – They have just recently reduced prices on a large number of their internet listings. Maybe they are ready to clean house on some of that inventory.
I just recently bought a gun from Don and I am more than happy with the product and the transaction. He has some really nice pieces.
To All;
I have what at first might sound like very foolish questions, but think about it before you tell me what a jerk I am. The questions are as follows. Why would anyone purchase an old model Winchester, Colt or what have you in as close to “New Condition” as possible, be it a Henry, 1866, 73, 76, 86, 94,or 1895? An original, virtually unused in “High Condition, Like almost New” firearm that has NO STORY to tell other than it was manufactured. I always thought we Winchester Collectors were collecting history, you know, one of the guns that “WON THE WEST”, not the firearm with nothing to say that looks as though it just left the factory yesterday. If I want to own a “New” firearm, one with no story to tell, then I go to my Dealer and buy a new, unfired one. Sort of like buying a New Ferrari rather than a Used one with a Raceing History. Like what’s the point?
Apache (Ya Ta Hey Kola)
Online
I understand your perspective and question. A Winchester rifle can have more than one story to tell, stories from an owners perspective of long ago hunts and other drama but I also enjoy the story they tell of an iconic company of craftsmen and talented engineers which produced each rifle individually. There were literally hundreds of Winchester hands on each rifle to produce it.
We as collectors like to compare each rifle with others to see the differences and changes throughout production as well as notice any anomalies. Some of those anomalies are a direct result of an employee story for that particular rifle and are the story of how it was made. Even a pristine unfired rifle has that story to tell and it certainly stirs my imagination and interest.
Some people collect stories, I collect rifles.
Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
There are all types of collectors, some want condition while others want history and if you get both, condition and documented history in one gun you have a very high dollar gun.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
It’s my opinion that if Don describes a rifle as “Condition good overall” then it’s in good condition…as in NRA Antique Good.
Thanks for the replies everyone. I hi k that I agree with Bert, the wood looks off in its fit, but the bluing looks correct.
apache said
To All;
I have what at first might sound like very foolish questions, but think about it before you tell me what a jerk I am. The questions are as follows. Why would anyone purchase an old model Winchester, Colt or what have you in as close to “New Condition” as possible, be it a Henry, 1866, 73, 76, 86, 94,or 1895? An original, virtually unused in “High Condition, Like almost New” firearm that has NO STORY to tell other than it was manufactured. I always thought we Winchester Collectors were collecting history, you know, one of the guns that “WON THE WEST”, not the firearm with nothing to say that looks as though it just left the factory yesterday. If I want to own a “New” firearm, one with no story to tell, then I go to my Dealer and buy a new, unfired one. Sort of like buying a New Ferrari rather than a Used one with a Raceing History. Like what’s the point?
Apache (Ya Ta Hey Kola)
A most worthy collecting perspective, however I believe there’s only one correct perspective, the one that brings the individual collector the most pleasure or fulfillment whether it be historic significance, collecting something old that looks as new, appreciation in value or any other reason or combination of reasons.
Winchester Model 1873 44-40 circa 1886
I have a couple of very nice 94 SRCs that would be less than Grove. If interested call me. 210 279 3673
I met Don at a Puyallup show a few years back. I think Bert made the show that day, too. Don’s a very personable and trusting individual and I enjoyed speaking with him at length. His wife was there also, but she was about the show somewhere while I was visiting with him. He asked me to watch his table for awhile and I did so from the customer side. I was tempted to have him come take a look at my assorted and meager collection and traded information with him. He would have done so at a later date, but I failed to get back with him on the matter.
He has one scoped model 1890 rifle now that I find to be interesting, but the scope bases are quite obviously not the standard distance between centers, and with the prevailing climate regarding such matters among collectors and potential buyers I have shied away from it, aside from the asking price. That said, I’d appreciate knowing what other folks here might have to say about it’s value as they see it.
Click on the link: http://www.winchestergrove.com and scroll down to Models 1890 and click on serial number 371xxx then tell me what you think, please.
On the subject post, I agree with Bert’s assessment as well.
James
What caught my eye is the closeup picture of the right side of the receiver where the top tang narrows and the wood does not fit up you can see rounding of the tang corner. For a gun with that much blue it should be sharp.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
pdog72 said
I have to agree with Bert on this one. I’ve perused Dons tables for many years now at Cody and Denver. His inventory seems to be good original examples and he always has a nice variety. Its possible that something sneaks in once in a while that has been worked on but that’s with most large volume dealers. The Groves are very proud of their guns for sale and I don’t think he intentionally keeps re-worked guns in his selection. His prices are toward the high end, but quite often, he is the only dealer at the show with certain variations. A while back, I was trying to negotiate the price on a nice Model 65 218 Bee with Don. He wasn’t willing to budge much, and said try to find another one in this condition at the show. I will say that I’ve yet to buy anything from Don, but he always has something I want. If I had a little larger checkbook, I would buy something from him at every show. I look forward to seeing him at the Denver show in a few weeks.
FYI – They have just recently reduced prices on a large number of their internet listings. Maybe they are ready to clean house on some of that inventory.
You could be right about the inventory.
All;
While looking at the photos of the 1894 Carbine of course I see what Bert points out as far as the color of the Gum Wood, typically a much lighter color than shown in the photos, and the fact there is almost no “Proud Wood” showing, but more than that, it’s the condition of the Barrel Bands that draws my attention. The one closest to the muzzle looks to have little if any blued finish remaining while the blue finish surrounding the head band and the finish on both the rear band and barrel looks to be over 95%. Interesting. I also noticed on one of his listed 1873 rifles (Atlanta Police) that has a beautiful high conditioned blue finish overall, but the photos showing the magazine under this “High Finish” barrel has virtually no finish at all. (perhaps changed by Atlanta PD) Also interesting. I, not being a “High Condition” Collector never purchased from the Groves, but they sure have some very nice looking pieces for sale.
Apache (Ya Ta Hey Kola)
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