Avatar
Search
Forum Scope




Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
Lost password?
sp_Feed sp_PrintTopic sp_TopicIcon
T A Mellon’s Model 1866 Rifle
sp_NewTopic Add Topic
Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1978
Member Since:
September 22, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1798
Member Since:
June 4, 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2
July 8, 2023 - 5:55 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

  I have a nickle signed John Ulrich engraved 1866 with a walking stag that looks identical. It’s my opinion it’s his work. The nickle over the engraved gun metal hides some of the fine strokes in the brass and makes it look cheap, but as it wears the fine detail will appear. T/R 

Avatar
NY
Member
Restricted
Forum Posts: 7119
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
3
July 8, 2023 - 6:59 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

TR said
  I have a nickle signed John Ulrich engraved 1866 with a walking stag that looks identical. It’s my opinion it’s his work. The nickle over the engraved gun metal hides some of the fine strokes in the brass and makes it look cheap, but as it wears the fine detail will appear. T/R 

  

Only by naive American standards of the time is this master-class engraving, no matter how famous the Ulrich’s are in this country.  Compared with engraving on British & French guns of the period, this work doesn’t measure up.  I actually like the stag for its archaic quality, but the scroll-work wouldn’t pass muster in a British gunshop.  American engraving standards did rise in later yrs to match European work, all the way up to Kornbrath, White, etc.  If you have any old copies of Gun Digest, compare Ulrich’s work with what’s shown in the “Engraving” section, dropped from current GDs. 

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1798
Member Since:
June 4, 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
4
July 8, 2023 - 9:01 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

 I do not like nickle finish over engraving, it hides the detail and yes John Ulrich’s stag is naive. What do you expect for $2.50 with hand tools?

 I owned an early Colt 1851 Navy engraved by Gustave Young and his dog or wolf’s head was naive, but I sure loved his work. I will always wonder how anyone can cut metal like that. A true artist working on steel canvas. T/R

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1978
Member Since:
September 22, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
5
July 8, 2023 - 10:15 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Perhaps John Ulrich’s engraved game are a bit of a caricature and, if actually a live specimen, perhaps would defy normal anatomy and physiology, but…this example, by far and away, is worse than any other examples of John Ulrich’s work I can find, as known examples on the internet (RIA, Collectible Firearms, etc).

Avatar
NY
Member
Restricted
Forum Posts: 7119
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
6
July 8, 2023 - 10:16 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

TR saidI will always wonder how anyone can cut metal like that.
  

By signing their apprenticeship contract at age 16 or 17, & then working diligently for the next 5 or more yrs.  Believe usual procedure was to engrave before steel was hardened.

Avatar
Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 5637
Member Since:
November 7, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
7
July 9, 2023 - 2:29 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

clarence said

TR saidI will always wonder how anyone can cut metal like that.

  

By signing their apprenticeship contract at age 16 or 17, & then working diligently for the next 5 or more yrs.  Believe usual procedure was to engrave before steel was hardened.

  

According to Pauline Muerrle’s engraving book the Winchester engravers performed their artistry after the steel was hardened. They made their own tools from hardened steel broaching rods.

 

Mike

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1798
Member Since:
June 4, 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
8
July 9, 2023 - 5:37 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost

 The 1866 has a gun metal receiver, butt plate, and forearm cap making engraving easy. Colt’s shipped to New York engraver’s were shipped soft. Early Winchester case-hardened steel parts have the case colors in the engraver’s cuts. It wouldn’t make sense to case-harden twice. I don’t know about blued guns, perhaps later Winchester engraved hardened guns? T/R

Avatar
NY
Member
Restricted
Forum Posts: 7119
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
9
July 9, 2023 - 5:43 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

  Colt’s shipped to New York engraver’s were shipped soft.TR said

  

That’s what I’ve always heard.  Not clear why parts to be engraved would not be left soft, as it makes engraver’s work easier. 

Forum Timezone: UTC 0
Most Users Ever Online: 4623
Currently Online:
Guest(s) 109
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
clarence: 7119
TXGunNut: 5637
Chuck: 5051
steve004: 4706
1873man: 4497
Big Larry: 2454
twobit: 2358
mrcvs: 1978
TR: 1798
Forum Stats:
Groups: 1
Forums: 18
Topics: 13574
Posts: 119851

 

Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 1911
Members: 9326
Moderators: 4
Admins: 3
Navigation