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Was perusing GB for its inventory and came across the following Model 94 “Deluxe”…
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/640475658
What struck me is the last photo is one of a Cody letter for a rifle with SN 405544 that contains warehouse data describing its configuration – which shouldn’t exist. I copied the photo from the listing and attached to this post. I sent the seller the following question this morning:
“The SN for this rifle appears to be 405544 & the auction photos present a Cody letter with a warehouse configuration listed within the letter. However, the Cody Firearms Museum itself states that warehouse records are only available for Model 1894s through SN 353999. Can you explain to me this apparent discrepancy? It seems very odd to have a warehouse record that shouldn’t exist. Thanks – Greg”
I’ll update the post if I hear back. I didn’t look at the rest of the rifle’s aspects, such as bluing, markings, etc. Once I saw what appears to be a phony letter I didn’t even bother. Correct me if I’m wrong.
Greg
I don’t see the seal at the bottom.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
The earliest letter I received from Cody, that was addressed to me, was back in April 2013. It didn’t have the seal. This letter seems to date to 2010 so the lack of a seal appears consistent. But in my short collecting lifetime, this is the first Cody letter with configuration data I’ve seen for a Model 94 with a SN post 353999.
I just received a reply from the seller. He stated:
“Good afternoon Greg, thank you for the question. I’m not sure why the discrepancy? I deal with Connie and Jesse at the museum very regularly and I guarantee the authenticity of the letter 100%. I will have to call that Monday And find out for my own curiosity. Thanks again for your interest! “
Stay tuned. I am very curious to see what happens on Monday. I know the auction ends Sunday evening so not sure how the seller intends to address that.
Greg
November 7, 2015
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Good looking rifle. Only thing that bothers me is the proof marks. I have an 1894 in 38-55 built in 1902, R&R’d in 1907 (probably to swap out the 32-40 bbl for the 38-55) and it has no proof marks. This GB rifle has proof marks.
That is a FAKE letter. The CFM records office positively does not have any Model 1894 ledger records beyond serial number 353999. All original CFM factory letters since at least the year 2000 have the raised seal on them.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
TXGunNut said
Good looking rifle. Only thing that bothers me is the proof marks. I have an 1894 in 38-55 built in 1902, R&R’d in 1907 (probably to swap out the 32-40 bbl for the 38-55) and it has no proof marks. This GB rifle has proof marks.
Mike,
That rifle is completely refinished, and there are numerous (obvious) clues in the pictures! The serial number identifies it as a 1908 production, and as such, it is supposed to have the proof marks stamped on it.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
August 11, 2015
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I have two letters from Cody from the last couple of years that were personally ordered by myself, which have no seal.
Wondering if I should get them to resend them?
Regards,
Mark Fischer said
I have two letters from Cody from the last couple of years that were personally ordered by myself, which have no seal.Wondering if I should get them to resend them?
Regards,
I received a Cody letter a few months which had left Cody without a stamp. I contacted Jessi, and she asked me to return it and then sent me a new stamped copy.
Winchester Model 1873 44-40 circa 1886
No mention of the Shotgun butt plate or the pistol grip on the letter either. Very strange!
callaway kid said
No mention of the Shotgun butt plate or the pistol grip on the letter either. Very strange!
Not really… at least when you take into account that it is a FAKE letter!
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
November 7, 2015
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Bert H. said
TXGunNut said
Good looking rifle. Only thing that bothers me is the proof marks. I have an 1894 in 38-55 built in 1902, R&R’d in 1907 (probably to swap out the 32-40 bbl for the 38-55) and it has no proof marks. This GB rifle has proof marks.Mike,
That rifle is completely refinished, and there are numerous (obvious) clues in the pictures! The serial number identifies it as a 1908 production, and as such, it is supposed to have the proof marks stamped on it.
Bert
Was wondering when the proof marks started, somehow 1910 stuck in my head but I couldn’t find anything in a quick search. I didn’t look at it all that closely, just assumed it was refinished after the first pics of the butt stock and the receiver. Even the description made no attempt to say otherwise. I figured they mistakenly put proof marks on it but wasn’t sure. I just think it’s a good looking rifle.
First time I’ve heard of a fake letter but I suppose it’s easy enough to do.
Mike,
July 1905 is when Winchester started applying the superposed “WP” proof marks on the center fire rifles, and all shotguns. The 22 rim fire rifles were proof marked beginning in October of 1908.
Fake letters exist, but fortunately they are not real common.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
I saw that rifle when it came on several days ago. Obvious refinish and poorly done. Peter
I sent the seller a message a few days ago, and this morning he sent me this response;
“Bert,
The bottom line on this seller is a whopping CAVEAT EMPTOR!!
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
November 7, 2015
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Hmmm….can’t have it both ways. Either it’s fake OR it describes another rifle. It may have described another rifle before it was altered so I’m in complete agreement with his first sentence. Sellers like him are why GB is just an entertainment site for me. I enjoy looking at the pretty guns and some of the descriptions (like this one) are good entertainment as well. It’s unfortunate that enough gullible, naïve folks are out there to support and encourage this type of behavior.
Eagle said
Woops…..Bert’s off his Christmas list for sure.
It is a good thing that I am the Abominable Snow Man, Ebenezer Scrooge, The Grinch, The Kallikantzaroi, and Krampus all rolled into one… Bah Humbug!
Bert, a.k.a. Evil Santa!!
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
November 7, 2015
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Seller owned up to the fake letter in his listing but tried to chalk it up as an honest mistake. Looks like a few bids since last night. Looks like a nice $700-800 shooter to me and I like the 38-55 cartridge but I have plenty of shooters, all honest guns.
Bert H. said
I sent the seller a message a few days ago, and this morning he sent me this response;“Bert,
I pulled the letter out to examine it and you are correct it is 100% fake. On the bottom of the letter it says the letter is for an 1886 with serial number 737 (which I own from the same collection). Thank you for bringing this to my attention.”This was my response to him this morning;“Really ?? The letter clearly states that it is for “Model 1894, serial number 405544“, not for a Model 1886, and certainly not for serial number “737”. Do you really believe that I, and other people are that stupid & blind ?? Compounding an outright lie (the fake letter, and bogus description) with another lie, it tells me everything that I need to know about you as a person. You are digging your hole deeper and deeper by the day… pretty soon, you should just stop digging, and have some fill in the hole above you.”
The bottom line on this seller is a whopping CAVEAT EMPTOR!!
Bert H.
I zoomed in at the bottom of the fake letter and it does say 1886 serial number 737 down in the fine print like the seller stated.
Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
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