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Super Grade 70/52 Sporter swivel size?
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April 28, 2022 - 2:50 am
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What size swivels did Super Grade 70 guns come with as original?  What size swivels did Sporter 52 guns come with?
There are original 1” and 1 1/4” swivels available, I wonder if there was a standard size provided when the guns were new?

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April 28, 2022 - 3:37 am
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1″ for both; Standard 52s & Target 70s used the 1-1/4″.

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April 28, 2022 - 2:12 pm
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I cannot imagine where the 1-1/4 swivel would have been used on a Target model 70, or 52 for that matter unless special ordered with quick detachable swivels. I believe Rule stated that he thought they were used on straight taper 375 Super Grades. I’m not sure of that since I don’t own one, and even then, there is a good chance the original swivels could be missing. The only application I have ever seen the the larger 1-1/4″ used on is the model 52 International Match rifle where it was used on the Freeland aluminum handstop provided with the rifle. I tend to think they were more than likely a special order or “parts department” item and not provided on any rifle unless ordered with them. 

Another interesting fact is that there were at least 2 sizes of the smaller 1″ swivel. The earlier style was listed with a .945″ inside dimension on the loop. It was changed to 1.060″ in 1949. Again, just speculating, but I’m pretty sure the the quick detachable swivel we are referring to was originally used on the model 95 Muskets, and the sling used on these had a reduced width where it passed through the swivel loop. These smaller swivels were most likely carried forward and used on the S/G’s and 52 Sporter. Winchester probably had complaints as to how tight the 1″ sling fit the smaller loop and changed the forging dies to a larger size for this reason.

To answer your question the both sizes of the smaller 1″ swivels could be correct on the S/G or 52 Sporter depending on year manufactured. I am still unsure for certain where the larger swivel was used.

Steve

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April 28, 2022 - 2:34 pm
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The ’34 WRA catalog offers both Kerr & leather slings in the 1-1/4″ size for 52s.  I have no later WRA catalogs, but the ’39 Stoegers lists the same size for the Target & NM 70s.  The term “government sling” is also used, which means the 1-1/4″ M1907 sling.

I recently tried to attach a M1907 to a Slowlock, & found that while the upper swivel was wide enough, it was impossible to force it through the lower swivel, so I ended up replacing that one with a swivel from (I believe) a Winder musket.

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April 28, 2022 - 2:37 pm
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clarence said
The ’34 WRA catalog offers both Kerr & leather slings in the 1-1/4″ size for 52s.  I have no later WRA catalogs, but the ’39 Stoegers lists the same size for the Target & NM 70s.  The term “government sling” is also used, which means the 1-1/4″ M1907 sling.

I recently tried to attach a M1907 to a Slowlock, & found that while the upper swivel was wide enough, it was impossible to force it through the lower swivel, so I ended up replacing that one with a swivel from (I believe) a Winder musket.  

I believe you are referring to the standard target rifle swivels which were not detachable like the swivels used on the S/G and 52 Sporter. The original request was for info on the quick detachable swivels used on the S/G’s and 52 Sporters. These were not used on the Target model rifles unless possibly special ordered.

Steve

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April 28, 2022 - 3:34 pm
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JC-

My observation (not stating this as fact) is that Winchester tended to provide 1 1/4″ swivels on (at least some) pre-64 M70s with heavy barrels when in standard style stocks.  This seems most consistent in the pre-war 375 MAGNUM rifles made with the 24″ straight taper (medium heavy target weight) barrels.  Some Varmint rifles also have 1 1/4″ swivels, though it’s not consistent.  I’m talking here about the FIXED bow swivels on standard stocks, as these are maybe less likely to have been switched out than the QD swivels on Super Grades.

As for your actual question… Laugh My limited experience with the Super Grade version of the heavy barrel 375 MAGNUM mentioned above is that it probably, like its standard grade counterpart, came with 1 1/4″ swivels.  At least that’s what’s on the one I have and a couple of others I’ve been able to examine up close. But like Steve said, the issue with the detachable swivels on Super Grades is that unless the rifle happens to be new in the box you really can’t be sure that the swivels there today are original to the rifle.

Short story is that 1″ swivels would have been routinely provided with pre-64 M70 Super Grades and M52 Sporters, with the possible exception of the pre-war heavy barrel 375 MAGNUMs.  As you point out, Winchester made both 1″ and 1 1/4″ swivels in both the fixed loop and detachable SG styles available as extra parts, and I suspect that most of the guns you see with 1 1/4″ swivels have them b/c the owner preferred the wider M1907 style sling.  So you really can’t be wrong with either size on a Super Grade rifle.

The more interesting issue, as Steve mentioned, is that (unless I’m mistaken) the SG swivel forging is different between pre-war and post-war manufactured parts.  So if you’re really concerned about being “period correct” you’d probably want the pre-war style swivel (of either loop size) on a pre-war gun.

Hope this helps…

Lou

WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters

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April 28, 2022 - 5:58 pm
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Thanks, everyone!  On EBay the swivels offered in the size of 1” SG and standard hunting swivels seem to outnumber the 1 1/4” by some ratio, like 7 to one.  

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