Avatar
Search
Forum Scope




Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
Lost password?
sp_Feed sp_PrintTopic sp_TopicIcon
SRC's - anyone ever actually use the ring?
sp_NewTopic Add Topic
Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 5089
Member Since:
November 19, 2006
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
21
April 2, 2023 - 2:14 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

oldcrankyyankee said
My two cents, I read some where a long time ago that Calvary saddles were equipped with a spring steel hook device that the saddle ring would clip into. Therefore holding the rifle in a manner of a scabbard but more easily and quickly accessed. 

  

But I don’t think they were hooking that device on to lever action carbines?

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 902
Member Since:
February 17, 2022
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
22
April 2, 2023 - 2:21 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

steve004 said

oldcrankyyankee said

My two cents, I read some where a long time ago that Calvary saddles were equipped with a spring steel hook device that the saddle ring would clip into. Therefore holding the rifle in a manner of a scabbard but more easily and quickly accessed. 

  

But I don’t think they were hooking that device on to lever action carbines?

  

Probably not, but is it just a carry over from the Sharps and Spencers. Like I said just something I remembered from a long time ago. 

Avatar
NY
Member
Restricted
Forum Posts: 7119
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
23
April 2, 2023 - 2:55 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

oldcrankyyankee said

Probably not, but is it just a carry over from the Sharps and Spencers. Like I said just something I remembered from a long time ago. 

I sure don’t claim to be a cavalry expert, but I’ve never heard of such a hook, although the Army was continually experimenting with new eqpt.  The only function of the ring on the service carbines was to connect to the heavy snap-ring on the sling.  But the service carbine ring was not attached directly to the rcvr, it was attached to a BAR about 2 in long, so it could slide back & forth.  There’s not really any resemblance between the service carbine rig & rings used on commercial carbines. 

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 450
Member Since:
July 31, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
24
April 2, 2023 - 2:58 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost

As a follow on to my earlier post on this topic by the mid-1880’s the U.S. Army had introduced a carbine boot that supported the weight of the gun and protected the breech portion.   The boot did not require the carbine be linked to the shoulder sling.  In fact, having it linked was a safety issue.  One doesn’t want to be tied to a carbine that is essentially attached to the saddle, in case the rider is thrown or pulled off the horse.

This is yours truly (circa 1991) in 1885 issue horse gear and equipment as used during the Geronimo campaign and on into the turn of the century.  The carbine boot replaced the earlier thimble.  There is no snap to retain the carbine in place.  It’s weight in the boot does the job.  

The army seemed to think it important that the carbine was always close by to the soldier.  That’s the idea behind the shoulder sling and sling ring on the carbine.  Since the army thought it important, commercial manufacturers such as Sharps and Winchester, put sling rings on their carbines in hopes of army contracts.  

Cav02-Copy.jpgImage Enlarger

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments

I call myself a collector as it sounds better than hoarder

Avatar
Santa Clara, CA
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 913
Member Since:
January 27, 1992
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
25
April 2, 2023 - 3:32 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

I may be misinformed, this happens quite often it seems.  I was told the original rings and straps allowed the weapon to be fired and then dropped, if necessary, without being lost or separated from the soldier.  This also allowed the revolver to be used in close quarters without loosing the carbine  Simply put, the weapon was semi-permanently attached to the soldier.  RDB

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 5089
Member Since:
November 19, 2006
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
26
April 2, 2023 - 3:57 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Interesting history.  I was thinking about how Marlin, Savage, Burgess and Whitney-Kennedy all put rings on their carbines.  They also all made musket rifles – a sign they were interested in military contracts as well.

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1356
Member Since:
December 21, 2006
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
27
April 2, 2023 - 3:57 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Ah, Michael , I can understand why You’re singleWink. I know of two groups of people who actually used a saddle ring, or a lash on their guns, one being the trappers, in Canada anyways. When the hand gun registry came into effect in 1935 some of them quit carrying their hand guns and started carrying cut off long guns or short, (trapper) s.r.c.’s. My father-in -law was a farmer who ran a trapline in the winter, I still have the .32 Hopkins and Allen He used to carry and My nephew has the old , cut off 1890 with  hole through the stock for lash, that He used to carry on a hook on His belt. The East Coast seal hunters carried Their guns in a similar manner, a lot of them being cut off bbl,s with the stocks being cut also, to accomodate one handed use. A friend of mine has ,I think the roughest gun I ever seen , a 1892 Win 15″ trapper in 44-40,it belonged to a Sealer in Labrador. That gun was carved and rusted to unbeliveable configuration, but still functional. So yes, some folks did actually use the saddle ring.

W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 450
Member Since:
July 31, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
28
April 2, 2023 - 4:04 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost

I found a couple of original photos of Indian wars era soldiers that show how carbines were carried.  These were posed photos but they illustrate typical uniforms and equipment during the mid-1880’s and later.

A soldier standing at parade rest with with saber and Springfield “trapdoor” carbine using the shoulder sling and ring.

Indian-Wars-cavalry.jpgImage Enlarger

A soldier mounted on his horse with the carbine in the 1880’s issue boot.  Note he is not wearing the shoulder sling.  

trooper01-1.pngImage Enlarger

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments

I call myself a collector as it sounds better than hoarder

Avatar
NY
Member
Restricted
Forum Posts: 7119
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
29
April 2, 2023 - 4:09 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Bill Hockett said
As a follow on to my earlier post on this topic by the mid-1880’s the U.S. Army had introduced a carbine boot that supported the weight of the gun and protected the breech portion.   The boot did not require the carbine be linked to the shoulder sling.  In fact, having it linked was a safety issue.  One doesn’t want to be tied to a carbine that is essentially attached to the saddle, in case the rider is thrown or pulled off the horse.

  

Basically it’s an open-ended saddle scabbard.  About twice as long as the CW boot I had.  But Roger’s point about the sling’s use to prevent dropping the carbine was previously, I think, a military consideration.  It’s a system going back to the earliest flintlock cavalry carbines.

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 5721
Member Since:
March 31, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
30
April 2, 2023 - 6:06 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Here is a picture of a Hotchkiss 2nd Model Military carbine from 1881.

Winchester-Springfield-2nd-Model-Hotchkiss-L.JPGImage Enlarger

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 2003
Member Since:
May 23, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
31
April 4, 2023 - 3:00 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

This topic reminds me of a post I had done previously about how they carried SRCs. Way back in 2015!

https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-rifles/how-were-they-carried/

Hope others find it interesting as well.

Sincerely,

Maverick

Avatar
Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 6290
Member Since:
November 7, 2015
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online
32
April 4, 2023 - 12:48 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

From the wear patterns we see on many early Winchesters it seems to me some were carried across the rider’s legs against the saddle horn. 

 

Mike

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Board Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
Avatar
NY
Member
Restricted
Forum Posts: 7119
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
33
April 4, 2023 - 1:27 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

TXGunNut said
From the wear patterns we see on many early Winchesters it seems to me some were carried across the rider’s legs against the saddle horn.

 

We don’t have to guess–it’s shown clearly in paintings by Russell & Remington.  (Surely you’ve seen them many times at the Amon Carter Museum, Mike).  I have such a one; wore out one brl & now on its second.  Not as precarious as it might seem, when used with the leather strap attached to the saddle horn as shown in such artwork.  Now maybe such riders would have preferred a store-bought saddle scabbard, but the strap, or loop, could be made out of any piece of scrap leather, such as an old piece of cinch or girth strap.

Forum Timezone: UTC 0
Most Users Ever Online: 4623
Currently Online: 1ned1, 426crown, TXGunNut
Guest(s) 236
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
clarence: 7119
TXGunNut: 6290
Chuck: 5721
steve004: 5089
1873man: 4684
Big Larry: 2522
twobit: 2489
mrcvs: 2158
Maverick: 2003
Forum Stats:
Groups: 1
Forums: 18
Topics: 14581
Posts: 130158

 

Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 2046
Members: 9894
Moderators: 4
Admins: 3
Navigation