Avatar

Please consider registering
guest

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —






— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters




sp_Feed Topic RSS sp_Print sp_TopicIcon
Should the butt plate be blued or case colored on this 1894?
January 9, 2019
7:45 pm
Avatar
Troutdale, OR
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 703
Member Since:
June 26, 2013
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online
January 9, 2019
10:46 pm
Avatar
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 224
Member Since:
November 8, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I have a 1911 model 1885 and it has a case colored plate.  So, I would think this gun should too.

January 9, 2019
11:45 pm
Avatar
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 521
Member Since:
September 22, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Definitely should be case coloured.  Makes one question the integrity of the rest of the rifle.

January 10, 2019
12:08 am
Avatar
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 261
Member Since:
February 19, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

one thing this sight has done to me....every winchester that looks that good is more than likely a fake or a really good refinish....Cry

January 10, 2019
12:17 am
Avatar
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 727
Member Since:
July 8, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

That gun has been restored, in my opinion.

January 10, 2019
1:29 am
Avatar
Troutdale, OR
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 703
Member Since:
June 26, 2013
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online

Thanks guys.  If that gun has been restored, they did a beautiful job, but blew it on the blued butt plate.  Certainly not worth the asking price in my opinion.

Don

January 10, 2019
1:55 am
Avatar
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 15
Member Since:
November 6, 2018
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Should the loading gate on this rifle be Niter blued. That was my first red flag and second would be the blues butt plate. 

January 10, 2019
3:08 am
Avatar
Kingston, WA
Forum Posts: 8814
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online

That rifle was manufactured in early 1914, which is when Winchester began transitioning to blued parts versus case color finishing. I do agree that the Nitre blued loading gate is wrong, and accordingly, the entire rifle is suspect.

Bert

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

January 10, 2019
1:48 pm
Avatar
Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1838
Member Since:
November 7, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Very attractive rifle! My biggest issue is that the wood has that “freshly finished” look including a few dings that were varnished over. I suppose they could be normal handling marks.

 

Mike

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
January 11, 2019
2:20 pm
Avatar
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 2233
Member Since:
March 20, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

My vote is definitely refinished.  There is not a single mark on the butt plate, absolutely no wear at the muzzle or magazine retaining band, and the rear sight elevator was never moved.  Has this gun been floating in a vacuum and never touched or bumped into ANYTHING for 107 years?  

Michael

Signature-Pic.jpg

 

Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation

January 11, 2019
3:05 pm
Avatar
NE OREGON
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 434
Member Since:
July 8, 2016
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Total refinish from what I am seeing. Lots of things that are not right. Yes, they did a pretty good job with that, but still refinished and not worth anywhere near start price. Those are new screws that have been browned also. Peter

January 15, 2019
4:44 pm
Avatar
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 138
Member Since:
January 24, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Gentlemen,

From my limited experience, the bulk of that rifle is correct.  Several indicators that this gun is right...or done very right. 

As to the screws, Winchester case hardened the screws, but with a different wood/bone ratio than the lever hammer etc.… The colors are thinner, and Winchester did not lacquer them, so they colors quickly faded, producing a silver/brown color.

As far as the loading gate… it very well may be Nitre blued, Nitre bluing will produce many colors… from straw yellow, to jet black, depending on temperature, and also lighting.

The buttplate does look odd, as well as the blued buttplate screws.

This is one of those that I would have to take a light to.

If this is a redone gun, I would very much like to meet the person that did it.

Respectfully

January 15, 2019
6:37 pm
Avatar
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 521
Member Since:
September 22, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Mike Hunter said

The buttplate does look odd, as well as the blued buttplate screws.

Once you have that irrefutable evidence, everything else becomes questionable/debatable.

It could be only the buttplate was refinished, but probably not only that.

And, no matter which way you slice it, at the very least, this gun cannot be considered factory original.

Now, how much do you knock it?  Is it an all original gun except for the buttplate or is it completely refinished?  One thing going against this gun only having a refinished buttplate is that wear to a blued finish is much more evident than to a case coloured surface.  Normal wear to a case coloured buttplate, even excessive wear or scratches, would normally not warrant refinishing.  More likely the case that the buttplate was simply a refinished component--at the time all the rest of the component parts were refinished.

January 15, 2019
7:16 pm
Avatar
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 713
Member Since:
December 27, 2007
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Please tell me if I am mistaken:

--light is not reflecting properly off the screw heads and tails.

--the forecap screws have seen a screwdriver.

--the lower tang has been out.

--the receiver has slight pitting beneath the blue.

--wear/loss of blue on the sharp edges of the receiver is fabricated.

January 15, 2019
8:30 pm
Avatar
Kingston, WA
Forum Posts: 8814
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online

The proof mark stamps on the barrel and frame ring show absolutely no discoloration to the bluing as a result of displaced steel.  For that reason alone, it is my opinion that someone refinished the entire rifle, albeit a very nice job.

Bert

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Forum Timezone: UTC 0

Most Users Ever Online: 628

Currently Online: Bert H., Maverick, deerhunter, Big Mac, Butch13778@yahoo.com
52 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)


Forum Stats:

Groups: 1

Forums: 15

Topics: 5645

Posts: 45086


Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 732

Members: 7973

Moderators: 4

Admins: 3


Top Posters:

1873man: 3653

twobit: 2233

TXGunNut: 1838

Maverick: 1326

Big Larry: 1229

Wincacher: 1179

JWA: 1142

Brad Dunbar: 1019

Matt74: 834

pdog72: 814

Navigation