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August 11, 2015
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All,
I have acquired a couple of 20″ short rifles in the Model 1873 and 1894. Had a couple of questions about them and would appreciate some feedback.
1) Did Winchester charge extra for a short rifle? If so, why would someone pay extra when they could get the 20″ version in the standard carbine?
2) How rare are short rifles and do they significantly add value to any gun that has at least some condition?
3) Would Winchester document the short rifle in their records? My 1873 letters as having a 20″ barrel but curious about others.
Thanks
1) According to some earlier catalogs, they did not charge extra for shorter barrels. On longer barrels, they charged by the inch for barrels over standard length.
2) Some of the books written, and the guys doing surveys, can give you an idea of rarity. All I can say is that on nice condition guns that are honest, especially those that “letter”, the shorter barrel can add significant value.
3) Yes, short barrels are listed in the factory records, but occasionally errors did occur.
Mark,
20″ short rifles are quite rare in the 73’s and do command a premium today. The 73’s will be documented in the records since they have all of them but in the 94’s they don’t have many records.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
August 11, 2015
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Thanks for the feedback. Find it interesting that people would want a shorter gun.
Of course, some of the Winchesters are a full lode to tote around all day. Maybe it gave the horse a little break or made it easier to point and shoot in tight quarters. Would be interested to know of the various opinions out there.
Regards,
To me an 1873 with a shorter barrel would be the definition of a “brush gun”. Something that is easy to tote through thick brush, short and handy enough to swing into position with limited space and powerful enough to do the job at shorter distances. In 1873 the options were very limited for a Winchester rifle in a brush gun configuration, a 20″ barrel would be a good start though.
Just my thought.
Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
January 26, 2011
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I can’t offer anything on the 1873’s but I have been focused on the 1894 short rifles for a while now.
On the 1894 short rifles – As for rarity, they are not found on every table at a gun show, but since I started actively looking for them to add to a survey, I’ve been quite surprised at how many are out there. For example, I just logged 19 of them at the Denver collectors show a couple weeks ago and it’s likely that I missed a few. Of course, there were thousands of Winchesters to look at, but I was still quite pleased at what I discovered. I think a lot of folks walk right past them, especially the 24” examples that blend right in with full length rifles.
As for value, they definitely command a premium over standard length, with everything else being equal. The biggest problem with short rifles is the abundant amount of chopped barrels that are out there. You have to be careful to make sure the rifle is original. The 1894’s in the letterable range most often will call out the barrel length on the letter, but as Oakridge mentioned, there are errors in the records. I have stumbled upon several factory short rifles that have nothing mentioned about barrel length in the letter. I happen to own one that I believe is correct, but doesn’t letter.
~Gary~
I have 104 20″ 73 rifles out of 6880 gun in my survey, which comes out to .015%.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
August 11, 2015
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I get the notion about the shorter rifle being easier to handle. I am curious as to why you would order a short rifle when you can get the carbine. Not sure if guns were readily available and dealers may have had a rack full. But seems that the short rifle had to be something that you always had to order from the factory and therefore had to wait on it to be made.
Maybe you just had to wait for everything back then so it didn’t matter so much. I gotta have stuff when I want it, not later.
Regards
Mark,
The choice for a short rifle compared to a carbine was probably a combination of taste and function. Obviously the many buyers like OB rifles far more than round since this configuration dominates the production of most of the early Winchester inventory. So, if you just HAVE to have an OB but then want a bit lighter gun the short rifle is the best alternative. The Walnut wood lasts better than the more typical gumwood used on carbines. You don’t have the noisy saddle ring to contend with while hunting. The lightly heavier rifle barrel will result in a bit less recoil than a carbine.
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
August 11, 2015
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All,
Thanks for all the great feedback. I enjoy the speculation process about why and how things may have happened. I find it really interesting to try and put oneself into the shoes of a person back then and what has impacted their decision making processes.
Regards
Mark,
With regards to the Model 1892 short rifles they were definitely noted as such in the factory ledgers and there were thousands of them manufactured in various lengths. By far the most popular was the 20 inch variety. After that they start getting “quite uncommon” to as popular as hen’s teeth! The tooth variety will definitely command a premium beyond what condition only might dictate.
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
1873man said
I have 104 20″ 73 rifles out of 6880 gun in my survey, which comes out to .015%.Bob
Bob, in the 104 20″ in your survey, how many were round barrel, Just curious as my 20” is round.
Tony
Tony,
26 were round and if you break those down by caliber, 2 were 32 cal, 3 were 38, 19 were 44 and 2 did not list a caliber.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
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