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semi deluxe 1886
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October 15, 2022 - 10:04 pm
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Morphy’s has listed an 86 semi deluxe in the November auction. the lot number is 2295. I was wondering if some one would check it out and give me some input. The checkering is of a pattern I am not familiar with. I have looked thru my limited written info and find no matches to it. The gun apears to be correct but would be happy to hear from others on it.  

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October 15, 2022 - 10:11 pm
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Both tangs appear to be proud of the wood??

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October 15, 2022 - 11:12 pm
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Here’s the link:    Lot Detail – (C) WINCHESTER MODEL 1886 SEMI-DELUXE LIGHTWEIGHT TAKEDOWN LEVER ACTION RIFLE. (morphyauctions.com)

To your question, the “I” checkering looks correct as compared to the letter. It’s what you would expect on a “Plain, Pistol Grip, Checkered” entry. It’s of lower quality, less coverage and usually a bit shallower than the more common “H” style. The guns looks pretty good other than Chucks observation of the tang to wood fit. Part of it may be the stock screw didn’t get cranked back down all the way. The screw shows evidence of being turned and likely was someone looking for assembly numbers with a crappy Kmart screwdriver. My 2 cents ……

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October 15, 2022 - 11:56 pm
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I like it, but I would share Chuck’s concern about the metal proud on the wood.  That rear tang screw sure shows signs of K-mart screwdriver use.  It would be very helpful to know if it just hadn’t been tightened down.  If you look at the forward portion of the top tang, the tang is below the wood.  This would not be impacted by tightening the tang further down.

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October 16, 2022 - 1:37 am
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Nice 86, Have 2 with plain PG checked like that. It was the cheapest way to get a personalized rifle, a full deluxe more then doubled the price back in 1906. In Morphy’s description, they state stock was sanded and varnish added!

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October 16, 2022 - 1:42 am
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cj57 said
Nice 86, Have 2 with plain PG checked like that. It was the cheapest way to get a personalized rifle, a full deluxe more then doubled the price back in 1906. In Morphy’s description, they state stock was sanded and varnish added!

  

I totally missed the lightly sanded comment. I guess that explains the less than perfect fit. As nice as the metal is, it’s hard to understand why the stock would have needed any refinishing, especially the dreaded sanding step. Hmmm Confused

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October 16, 2022 - 2:08 am
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pdog72 said

cj57 said

Nice 86, Have 2 with plain PG checked like that. It was the cheapest way to get a personalized rifle, a full deluxe more then doubled the price back in 1906. In Morphy’s description, they state stock was sanded and varnish added!

  

I totally missed the lightly sanded comment. I guess that explains the less than perfect fit. As nice as the metal is, it’s hard to understand why the stock would have needed any refinishing, especially the dreaded sanding step. Hmmm Confused

  

I worked in a gunshop for 20 years, and there were some guys that were fanatics about their guns, if it got a small scratch, they would have it refinished! Even on a nice gun like that. I have seen it many times! 

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October 16, 2022 - 11:51 am
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Thanks for the input. 2 quick questions tho, 1 did anyone notice the circle that appears around the end of the serial number? 2 what about wood shrinkage, after all the wood is well over 100 years old. 

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October 16, 2022 - 1:07 pm
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oldcrankyyankee said
Thanks for the input. 2 quick questions tho, 1 did anyone notice the circle that appears around the end of the serial number? 2 what about wood shrinkage, after all the wood is well over 100 years old. 

The circle at the serial number is from the screw in the tang.

Wood would not shrink that much over time.  I agree it’s been sanded and refinished.  The checkering isn’t as crisp as I might expect for a rifle in this condition.  Meaning that the metal components are showing little wear and crisp checkering would be in order if not refinished.  Someone, like already stated, may have had a refinish of wood performed simply because of a scratch or two.

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October 16, 2022 - 2:28 pm
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I too, missed the part in the description about the sanding.  I tend to focus much more on photos over whatever the auction writer has come up with.  But, if the auction writer says it is sanded, it surely is.  

I also think the explanatory comment about why someone (back then) would have a stock refinished is something I can lose sight of.  The previous owner who used this rifle obviously took care of it.  As collectors, if we own a rifle like that – maybe one that is our pride and joy – we think why on earth would he defile something so nice by sanding it?  But, as was implied, it may have been the pride and joy thing that was his very reason.  Another owner might have not cared about a scratch or scratches.  Chances are this owner was pleased with the refinishing job and paid no notice to the slight under-sanding. 

I have to remember people purchased these rifles back then to use and often the various alterations performed made perfect sense.  In that vein, over the years, I’ve heard other collectors or dealers – when referring to some extra scope or sight tap holes, or added swivel studs – say something to the effect:  “I hope there’s a special place in hell reserved for people who do that.”  That is really unfair.  People modified their rifles so they would work better for them. 

I will make a confession on this very point.  Over 40 years ago I installed a set of Uncle Mike’s detachable swivels on a ’94 .32 Special carbine. That modification made that carbine much more usable for me.  I hunted many years with it and killed many deep woods Whitetail deer.  Back then, I never dreamed that modification would do anything but enhance that carbine.  What may soften the impact of my story is my carbine was made in 1965.

We have all seen modifications that challenge forgiveness.  An example, the “art” that we often encounter (e.g. a deer carving in the buttstock). These modifications usually turn me off the most.  However, I still would not cast the past owners of these rifles into hell.  If the modifications the owner made enhanced their enjoyment of their rifle, made it more special to him – maybe he even showed it off with pride to friends and family – who am I to criticize him for not giving more care to how some future owner felt about what he did?

 

  

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October 16, 2022 - 2:32 pm
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steve004 said
I too, missed the part in the description about the sanding.  I tend to focus much more on photos over whatever the auction writer has come up with.  But, if the auction writer says it is sanded, it surely is.  

I also think the explanatory comment about why someone (back then) would have a stock refinished is something I can lose sight of.  The previous owner who used this rifle obviously took care of it.  As collectors, if we own a rifle like that – maybe one that is our pride and joy – we think why on earth would he defile something so nice by sanding it?  But, as was implied, it may have been the pride and joy thing that was his very reason.  Another owner might have not cared about a scratch or scratches.  Chances are this owner was pleased with the refinishing job and paid no notice to the slight under-sanding. 

I have to remember people purchased these rifles back then to use and often the various alterations performed made perfect sense.  In that vein, over the years, I’ve heard other collectors or dealers – when referring to some extra scope or sight tap holes, or added swivel studs – say something to the effect:  “I hope there’s a special place in hell reserved for people who do that.”  That is really unfair.  People modified their rifles so they would work better for them. 

I will make a confession on this very point.  Over 40 years ago I installed a set of Uncle Mike’s detachable swivels on a ’94 .32 Special carbine. That modification made that carbine much more usable for me.  I hunted many years with it and killed many deep woods Whitetail deer.  Back then, I never dreamed that modification would do anything but enhance that carbine.  What may soften the impact of my story is my carbine was made in 1965.

We have all seen modifications that challenge forgiveness.  An example, the “art” that we often encounter (e.g. a deer carving in the buttstock). These modifications usually turn me off the most.  However, I still would not cast the past owners of these rifles into hell.  If the modifications the owner made enhanced their enjoyment of their rifle, made it more special to him – maybe he even showed it off with pride to friends and family – who am I to criticize him for not giving more care to how some future owner felt about what he did?

 

  

  

Well put Steve.

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October 16, 2022 - 4:53 pm
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I agree as well, Steve. Maybe the buyer will get a fantastic rifle for a bit of a clearance due to the slight misfit ……… or maybe not in the online auction environment. Frown

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October 16, 2022 - 10:05 pm
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Steve, thank you for your input. I look at this way. Winchester isn’t making another one like this. I am willing to accept a blemish or two. I think some times we get a little critical. after all it is over 100 years old and I certainly cant speak for a person from back then. Ill take this rifle any day! 

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October 17, 2022 - 1:19 am
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oldcrankyyankee said
Steve, thank you for your input. I look at this way. Winchester isn’t making another one like this. I am willing to accept a blemish or two. I think some times we get a little critical. after all it is over 100 years old and I certainly cant speak for a person from back then. Ill take this rifle any day! 

  

Good luck Tom, hope you snag it for a decent price. It’s a nice-looking piece. 

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October 17, 2022 - 10:27 pm
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pdog72 said

oldcrankyyankee said

Steve, thank you for your input. I look at this way. Winchester isn’t making another one like this. I am willing to accept a blemish or two. I think some times we get a little critical. after all it is over 100 years old and I certainly cant speak for a person from back then. Ill take this rifle any day! 

Good luck Tom, hope you snag it for a decent price. It’s a nice-looking piece. 

Ill keep an eye on it. Will fit right in with all my other derelict rifles. 

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October 17, 2022 - 10:37 pm
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oldcrankyyankee said

pdog72 said

oldcrankyyankee said

Steve, thank you for your input. I look at this way. Winchester isn’t making another one like this. I am willing to accept a blemish or two. I think some times we get a little critical. after all it is over 100 years old and I certainly cant speak for a person from back then. Ill take this rifle any day! 

Good luck Tom, hope you snag it for a decent price. It’s a nice-looking piece. 

It isn’t derelict.  I’d bid on it based on what you think it’s worth with no refinished parts then knock a third off because the stock is refinished.  I think that would be a fair price.

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October 18, 2022 - 11:34 pm
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mrcvs said

oldcrankyyankee said

pdog72 said

oldcrankyyankee said

Steve, thank you for your input. I look at this way. Winchester isn’t making another one like this. I am willing to accept a blemish or two. I think some times we get a little critical. after all it is over 100 years old and I certainly cant speak for a person from back then. Ill take this rifle any day! 

Good luck Tom, hope you snag it for a decent price. It’s a nice-looking piece. 

It isn’t derelict.  I’d bid on it based on what you think it’s worth with no refinished parts then knock a third off because the stock is refinished.  I think that would be a fair price.

  

Thanks for the sound advice from all. I will keep an eye on it as it would fit well with this ELW  in 45-70IMG_0272.JPGImage Enlarger

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October 23, 2022 - 3:49 pm
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oldcrankyyankee said

mrcvs said

oldcrankyyankee said

pdog72 said

oldcrankyyankee said

Steve, thank you for your input. I look at this way. Winchester isn’t making another one like this. I am willing to accept a blemish or two. I think some times we get a little critical. after all it is over 100 years old and I certainly cant speak for a person from back then. Ill take this rifle any day! 

Good luck Tom, hope you snag it for a decent price. It’s a nice-looking piece. 

It isn’t derelict.  I’d bid on it based on what you think it’s worth with no refinished parts then knock a third off because the stock is refinished.  I think that would be a fair price.

  

Thanks for the sound advice from all. I will keep an eye on it as it would fit well with this ELW  in 45-70IMG_0272.JPGImage Enlarger

  

Tom – that is a very nice looking ELW – I love that configuration.  In fact, as a big game hunting rifle (except for long range shooting applications), I don’t see how modern firearms designers and manufacturers have improved upon what you show right there Cool

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October 23, 2022 - 11:15 pm
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Thanks Steve, it is one of my all time favorites. In fact I just found a set of well matched s hook sling hooks for it. On the prowl for a period sling now! 

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