Self loading 351 ?|Winchester Rifles|Forum|Winchester Collector

Chris-

I have been told one of our members is currently researching and writing about T. C. Johnson’s self loaders. I touched on them briefly in my recent article on Johnson and the Model 1903 and am looking forward to reading about the centerfire models. 

Mike

Chris Sterling said
Okay thank you guys , I read where some were converted from 35 to 351 by reaming out the chamber and using a 351 magazine but they said it was not advisable ?

  

As a rule this modification would greatly reduce the collector value. I’d love to research the practical and/or safety aspect of this conversion but my reference library is unavailable at this time.

Mike

Zebulon said
Good morning, all.  I hope whoever is writing up the Self-Loaders will include mention of the conversion of a 1907 to full auto for at least one member of the Dillinger gang, by a San Antonio gunsmith of German descent whose name I can’t recall. The gang member was Homer van Meter. 

The gunsmith was also known for his conversions of the 1911 Colt in both .45 ACP and Super .38 calibers. 

All of his conversions featured a buttstock, a secondary forward pistol grip and extended single-,stack magazines. 

When firing an early, skinny-butted 1907 off the bench and experiencing its unpleasant jarring recoil,  the need for a forward grip in burst fire was apparent. The shooter would have needed his full bowl of breakfast Wheaties, too.

Interesting guns, the Self Loaders but the (centerfire) design was a rabbit hole.  As much as I enjoy my Model 63, the1907s are the weirdest Winchesters I’ve ever owned. 

  

The gunsmith who did the conversion was Hyman Lebman

Zeb, There’s an article by Will Dabbs in Sept. 19, 2019 Guns America that shows pics of Lebman’s conversions and other handiwork.

gunsamerica.com 

Here’s one I wish I hadn’t sold. Bought it in 1997; it was made in 1908 (Bert, Serial # is 12,577 so correct me if my DOM is off). It included a Lyman 1A, a Winchester 22G, and a Sheard bead up front. From what I could see at the time, this was a special order gun that included extra wood, a high polish finish, and a capped pistol grip.  Unfortunately, as with many of these the forearm was cracked right through the checkering pattern and it took a lot of work to make it presentable again. To keep it together, I soaked a cotton cleaning patch in an epoxy glue and applied it inside the inletting to reinforce it.  Never shot it, which is one reason I sold it. It bored me just setting inside the safe.  I wish now I’d displayed it instead of selling it. 

As a late good friend said when he saw it, “Shame it’s not a Model 86.”  No kidding, but then I couldn’t have afforded the price. 

Edit: My memory is unreliable.  The crack was in the forearm but not through the checkering. Rather than at the bottom, it was along one side, which was to me unusual.  Here’s a closeup of the repair.

Thanks, Bert.

William Cawley said
The 1905 WSL was also chambered in 32 SLR 

Bill

  

Indeed it was and I once owned one.  Correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t the 32 SL the basis for the M1 .30 Carbine cartridge? 

I do recall plan drawings from Herb’s Winchester history that clearly illustrate Roemer’s and Humiston’s use of the M1907 fire control,  trigger guard and magazine receptacle assemblies, almost intact, for the M1.