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Do you see the following description as being correct for the Winchester at this link https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/81/3013/winchester-deluxe-model-1886-lever-action-short-rifle
Fine overall with 70% of the possibly factory refurbished color casehardened finish remaining overall with wear and fading on the sides and underside of the receiver, with better color in the protected areas. The barrel, magazine tube and breech bolt also retain 95% of refinished blue finish overall with the crown of the barrel in the white. The stock and forearm both in very fine with 98% of their varnished finish overall with nice distinct checkering showing only very minor handling marks overall. The oversize recoil pad has been non-factory added. The top of the breech bolt has been drilled and tapped for a peep sight.
James
James,
No, I do not. I am not of the opinion that the barrel was replaced by Winchester. It should be noted that RIA did not get a Cody letter or worksheet for this rifle.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
James,No, I do not. I am not of the opinion that the barrel was replaced by Winchester. It should be noted that RIA did not get a Cody letter or worksheet for this rifle.
Bert
Bert, I figured that your comment about the re-barrel was your stance on this issue as I remember it to be. I also seem to recall that there are two schools of thought on this issue as well. I don’t see where the color case hardening has “possibly” been refinished, aside from, perhaps, the forend cap. Maybe you or someone else would be kind enough to educate me to think otherwise as I am concerned about why the appraiser used the term “possibly.” I also do not see the barrel blue as having been refinished as it is hard to tell without having it in hand – comments, please.
Added: You are probably right about the barrel note, Bert, especially since the receiver is not proofed.
James
Online
James, The receiver has dried oil halos around the edges and screws, one screw has original chatter marks on the head, good wood fit, and age in the case. Judging strictly from the pictures it looks factory and old. The barrel and tube have no oil halos, screws have been played with, and wood fit not as good. I would like to see the blue with a bright light before commenting on the blue on tube and barrel. The blue on the bolt appears dull and with the extra holes I assume it’s re-blued. The big question is how the lower tang fits the wood and receiver, the serial numbers look, and what the factory letter says. These questions can not be answered by the catalog listing.
People do build guns using nice original parts with nice original finish, that’s why I like a letter. That said the gun is probably worth the estimate even if it does not letter.T/R
TR said
James, The receiver has dried oil halos around the edges and screws, one screw has original chatter marks on the head, good wood fit, and age in the case. Judging strictly from the pictures it looks factory and old. The barrel and tube have no oil halos, screws have been played with, and wood fit not as good. I would like to see the blue with a bright light before commenting on the blue on tube and barrel. The blue on the bolt appears dull and with the extra holes I assume it’s re-blued. The big question is how the lower tang fits the wood and receiver, the serial numbers look, and what the factory letter says. These questions can not be answered by the catalog listing.People do build guns using nice original parts with nice original finish, that’s why I like a letter. That said the gun is probably worth the estimate even if it does not letter.T/R
Thank you for the training session, TR. The details are greatly appreciated!
James
James, If that gun was original and lettered RIA would have estimated it at $15,000 or so. The fact that in there description they point out the flaws makes them permanent! Every time someone searches that serial number they know RIA said the barrel was re-finished and the pictures are visible showing all the flaws. When you buy a gun like this the resale value is limited. The gun dealer that thinks he can fix the flaws can’t hide it’s past, if he sells it without disclosing he makes an enemy when the new owner finds the auction listing.
I had a friend that bought a deluxe 86, the condition was as nice as this one, all original except 7 extra small threaded sight holes on one side of the receiver. He hung it on the wall with the good side out until the day he died. RIA sold it cheap, he didn’t care. T/R
Again, thank you for the detailed notes, all of which makes good sense, which brings me back to my original thoughts. For example, I think that an appraiser should not have mentioned the word “possibly” where the case color finish is concerned since the pictures are excellent. Now, if the terminology was meant for the forend tip that is somewhat vivid on both sides instead of just one, that should have been pointed out, but it wasn’t. Which brings me to the comment that Bert made about the barrel not being replaced at the factory, which makes sense in that the receiver was not proofed as well. So, if the cap does not have its original colors, then to me, it would have likely been refinished outside the factory.
The subject appraisal and the very black and new like finishes on some of the Winchesters, plus the Whitney Kennedy strike me as strange where original finish is concerned as well. Again, for example, I think that I should be seeing a bright blue finish that most early Winchesters, Kennedies, and Remingtons are known for having, yet, I see more and more of “very new like black finishes.” If this is the photography, then they should do something to show the bright blue that is so common on 100+ year old rifles.
James
I like this one better. Quite a bit lower auction estimate:
Factory refurbished? They sound less tentative about it vs. the other one.
steve004 said
I like this one better. Quite a bit lower auction estimate:Factory refurbished? They sound less tentative about it vs. the other one.
It will be interesting to see how this one plays out, Steve!
James
mrcvs, His name was Thor Edgeberg, died about 5 years ago. Took RIA over a year to sell his 350 guns in regional and premier auctions. The family did not allow me notes during my appraisal so any search would be time consuming. 86 DLX PG FM OCT 45-90 I think. No link. T/R
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