Avatar
Search
Forum Scope




Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
Lost password?
Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 433
Member Since:
November 8, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 385
Member Since:
November 9, 2008
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2
January 14, 2025 - 1:24 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

It’s a very nice condition 1894, but that is not the correct box, that box is marked Div. of Western Cartridge Co., that didn’t happen until 1938 and changed to Div of Olin in Dec. 1944. Pay for a nice carbine, Not the box

Avatar
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 12209
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
3
January 14, 2025 - 1:50 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

sb said
https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/rifles/winchester-rifles—model-1894-pre-64/winchester-94-saddle-ring-carbine-nib-with-hang-tags-1915.cfm?gun_id=102958664

I would expect that this offering originated in the Sacramento area

  

It certainly did originate in that locale.

For those of you who are not aware, Winchester did not use cardboard boxes pre-WW I, and they were not a “Division of the Western Cartridges Company” until the 1930s.  The box and tag are fabrications created by the person who used the name “Selling Dad’s Old Guns” on Gunbroker a number of years ago.

Bert

WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Avatar
Montana
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 686
Member Since:
November 2, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
4
January 14, 2025 - 4:23 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Personally, I’m not all that impressed by the condition of the carbine either.

Avatar
Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 5940
Member Since:
November 7, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
5
January 14, 2025 - 8:48 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

win4575 said
Personally, I’m not all that impressed by the condition of the carbine either.

  

I’m not either. Appears to have a generous coat of oil or refinished wood, or both. Nice touch with the VA area code but I could smell the snake oil in the description.

 

Mike

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
Avatar
Cedar City, Utah
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 83
Member Since:
March 25, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
6
January 14, 2025 - 10:42 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost

And …………

I’m fairly certain that a 1915 gun would be a Model 1894, not a Model 94.

Avatar
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 42
Member Since:
June 15, 2024
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
7
January 14, 2025 - 12:11 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

tsbccut said
And …………

I’m fairly certain that a 1915 gun would be a Model 1894, not a Model 94.

  

Per Renneberg, the switch from “Model 1894” to “Model 94” occurred in the early 1920’s.

Avatar
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 12209
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
8
January 14, 2025 - 5:52 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Alaska94 said

tsbccut said

And …………

I’m fairly certain that a 1915 gun would be a Model 1894, not a Model 94.

  

Per Renneberg, the switch from “Model 1894” to “Model 94” occurred in the early 1920’s.

Per Winchester’s Change of Manufacture Notice, it began in April 1919.  That were undoubtedly a fair number of pre-marked receivers that were still on hand and being used for at least 7-months after the notice was issued. 

Per my research survey, the actual transition from the Type 4 to the Type 5 upper tang marking on the Model 1894/94 took place on the receiver frames that were serialized in late January 1920 (s/n 897060 is the earliest Type 5 documented this far). The transition from the Type 4 to the Type 5 UT marking was 100% complete by s/n 898500.

Type 4 upper tang marking

Type-4-879000.jpgImage Enlarger

 

Type 5 upper tang marking

Type-5-1015072.jpgImage Enlarger

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments

WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Avatar
Winchester, VA
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1148
Member Since:
November 5, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
9
January 14, 2025 - 10:02 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

I cannot comment on the “origins” of the rifle/box under discussion, but Jacob Rothgeb (jdr284) does live in Virginia.  I have never done any business with (or even met) the man, but I do know a WACA member who has met him in-person.  My Friend has not purchased anything from him either but can attest to his identity/State of residence…

Not sure if jdr284 got this rifle/box from Sacramento, but he has certainly offered a number of “NIB” pre-64 Model 70s with non-original packaging on his own accord…  I suspect that the “Selling Dad’s Old Guns” business model has several practitioners… Wink

Be careful out there,

Lou

WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters

WACA-Signauture-3.jpg

Avatar
Ohio
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 71
Member Since:
August 8, 2024
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
10
January 15, 2025 - 2:13 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Louis, I can’t agree with you more.  I would cringe when I would see the fake boxed Pre 64 Model 70s that were sold by “Selling Dad’s old guns”.  I could not help feel bad for the folks that purchased them.  Thinking that they are buying something special.  Today,  we have more information then we used to have.  If you do your research, and talk to other Collectors who have been doing this for a while.  This kind of thing can be avoided.

Forum Timezone: UTC 0
Most Users Ever Online: 4623
Currently Online: Burt Humphrey, deerhunter, [email protected]
Guest(s) 152
Currently Browsing this Page:
2 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
clarence: 7119
TXGunNut: 5940
Chuck: 5361
steve004: 4880
1873man: 4568
Big Larry: 2477
twobit: 2418
mrcvs: 2057
TR: 1838
Forum Stats:
Groups: 1
Forums: 18
Topics: 14068
Posts: 124468

 

Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 1978
Members: 9602
Moderators: 4
Admins: 3
Navigation