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Questionable features on an 1892 rifle
February 22, 2021
1:37 am
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Just found this site today and I'm a brand-new Guest member.  I'm sad to say that currently my only Winchester is an M1 rifle.  Though I have previously owned a Second Model 1873 in .38 WCF (which I really wish I still had).

 

I recently purchased my first 1st Generation Colt Single Action--a 1903 vintage Bisley in .38 WCF.  So I have started looking for a rifle to go with it.

I my searches this weekend, I can across an 1892 rifle with a couple of odd "features".  Anyway, things that don't seem to fit in.  I have only seen pictures of the rifle in question.  The rifle is in the 630,000 range, so made around 1910-11.

 

1.  The rear sight has 3 folding leaves where the "standard" buckhorn blade would be.  Kind of like express sights.

2.  It has a shotgun (flat) butt with a checkered steel buttplate.  My old Blue Book doesn't mention this being an option on 1892 rifles.

3.  There is a small extra hole in the left side of the receiver.  The hole appears to be about 1/8" and is high up near the front and may enter the receiver in the barrel threads, or just behind.

Otherwise the rifle has little finish, but doesn't seem to be rusted or pitted (much like my "new" Bisley).  Any thoughts on the above "features"?  Thank you!

 

Rob

February 22, 2021
3:59 pm
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The 3 leaf sight is a fairly common one, Shotgun butts were very common, I've got a 44-40 Serial #409,000 range, round barrel, shotgun butt with a checkered steel butt plate. Without seeing pics it's hard to tell about the "extra hole",  are you sure it's not the access hole hole for removing the lever pin from the bolt?

Erin

February 22, 2021
4:41 pm
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guns@teddydog.org said
Just found this site today and I'm a brand-new Guest member.  I'm sad to say that currently my only Winchester is an M1 rifle.  Though I have previously owned a Second Model 1873 in .38 WCF (which I really wish I still had).

 

I recently purchased my first 1st Generation Colt Single Action--a 1903 vintage Bisley in .38 WCF.  So I have started looking for a rifle to go with it.

I my searches this weekend, I can across an 1892 rifle with a couple of odd "features".  Anyway, things that don't seem to fit in.  I have only seen pictures of the rifle in question.  The rifle is in the 630,000 range, so made around 1910-11.

 

1.  The rear sight has 3 folding leaves where the "standard" buckhorn blade would be.  Kind of like express sights.

2.  It has a shotgun (flat) butt with a checkered steel buttplate.  My old Blue Book doesn't mention this being an option on 1892 rifles.

3.  There is a small extra hole in the left side of the receiver.  The hole appears to be about 1/8" and is high up near the front and may enter the receiver in the barrel threads, or just behind.

Otherwise the rifle has little finish, but doesn't seem to be rusted or pitted (much like my "new" Bisley).  Any thoughts on the above "features"?  Thank you!

 

Rob  

As luck would have it, I have a 1906 vintage M1894 30 cal. SRC carbine, and a Colt SAA 45 two months apart. The SAA 45 was shipped to the Copper Queen Mine in Bisbee AZ. Do not have a clue as to the shipment of the M1894. Both shipped within a few weeks of the San Francisco earthquake. Big Larry

February 22, 2021
5:49 pm
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guns@teddydog.org said
I'm sad to say that currently my only Winchester is an M1 rifle.

Owning a Winchester M1 is no cause for sadness!  I'd rather have it than the '92!

February 22, 2021
6:07 pm
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I didn't mean to say that having a Winchester M1 is something to be sad about!  Just that it is the only Winchester I currently own, which is sad from the standpoint of a Winchester Collector Forum.

WAIT!  EDIT:  I actually do have another Winchester.  Sort of?  It is a "U.S. Repeating Arms"/Miroku/Winchester 1886 rifle in 45-70.  Forgot I picked that up in November.

 

Here's the left side hole I'm talking about:
Image Enlarger

doesn't look like a mounting hole for any kind of sight.

 

Thanks.

 

Rob

February 22, 2021
8:44 pm
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guns@teddydog.org said
I didn't mean to say that having a Winchester M1 is something to be sad about!  Just that it is the only Winchester I currently own, which is sad from the standpoint of a Winchester Collector Forum.

WAIT!  EDIT:  I actually do have another Winchester.  Sort of?  It is a "U.S. Repeating Arms"/Miroku/Winchester 1886 rifle in 45-70.  Forgot I picked that up in November.

 

Here's the left side hole I'm talking about:
Image Enlarger

doesn't look like a mounting hole for any kind of sight.

 

Thanks.

 

Rob  

Yep, That's an extra hole.

February 22, 2021
9:29 pm
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Having no Winchester would be sad.......

February 23, 2021
12:34 am
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Rob - what caliber is the M1892 chambered in?  You mentioned you are doing some searching.  Are you searching for a shooter, hunter, plinker or one to collect?

February 23, 2021
2:03 am
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.38 WCF is the goal, to match the Colt I recently picked up.  Probably safe to say a low-end collectible shoooter.  I know really good examples are running well north of $2500, but I'm seeing even rough ones are looking like $1500 and above.  I paid $2k for this Colt, so I'm looking for a long gun "mate".

 

Image Enlarger

Does that help?  I have a Marlin 1894 in 32 WCF and an "El Tigre" Win 1892 copy in 44 WCF, plus a Cimarron 1873 short rifle in 45 Colt from my CAS days.

The 1892 rifle with the "hole" that is subject of this thread is listed at $1500!

(The other option, of course, is to buy an Italian rifle, but even those are running $1200-1500 is seems.)

Rob

February 23, 2021
2:18 am
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It's to your advantage that you want a .38-40.  They don't command the money .44-40's command.  Are you set on a certain configuration - octagon barrel, round barrel, full magazine or?

February 23, 2021
3:44 am
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No, I'm quite open.  Win 73 or 92, or a <gasp> Marlin 89 or 94.

Looked at a basket-case Marlin 89 today.  Price was right at $725, but probably a bit lower condition that I would prefer.

Rob

February 23, 2021
2:36 pm
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Good morning Rob,

I agree that the hole is not original and I have no idea why it is there.  The 630000 SN range corresponds to production in 1911.  Can you please post the other images of the rifle that you might have?  While the shotgun butt is not a real common occurrence on the 1892 the combination of shotgun butt, round barrel, and express sights was a common configuration for rifle shipped to England.  Is the magazine a full or half length?  What is the full serial number?  I am working on a research survey of the Model 1892/92 rifles and am glad to help.  Ask question before reaching for the check book.

Michael

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Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation

February 25, 2021
9:46 pm
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Hello Rob,

Thansk for sending me the images of the rifle.  I have added it to my survey.  It certainly appears that there are faint English Proof stamps just below the caliber stamp on the barrel and I am certain that it is like the many other rifles of identical configuration which were ordered for buyers in England.  I still have no idea why the extra little hole was drilled into the receiver.

Michael

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Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation

February 26, 2021
5:34 pm
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twobit said
Hello Rob,

Thansk for sending me the images of the rifle.  I have added it to my survey.  It certainly appears that there are faint English Proof stamps just below the caliber stamp on the barrel and I am certain that it is like the many other rifles of identical configuration which were ordered for buyers in England.  I still have no idea why the extra little hole was drilled into the receiver.

Michael  

Could this be to relieve pressure?  Some other rifles have a hole similar to this.

February 26, 2021
6:34 pm
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I was wondering if it was a required safety with foreign proofing, but don't think I've seen it on other Win 1892s.  Like the "Hatcher Hole" added to US Springfields for added safety and gas release in case of a failed case.

I decided to pass on the rifle in question. Found a rough old Marlin locally to bring home for half the price.

Image Enlarger

Rob

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