Avatar
Please consider registering
Guest
Search
Forum Scope




Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
Register Lost password?
sp_Feed sp_PrintTopic sp_TopicIcon
Question about 12 inch Model 1892 carbines (and rifles)
sp_NewTopic Add Topic
Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4097
Member Since:
November 19, 2006
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1
May 19, 2023 - 11:13 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

I recall James Huntley had a 12 inch M1892 carbine in .44-40.  It sold (along with many other short carbines and short rifles) through LeRoy Merz.  I recall coveting that carbine.  At the time, it was said to be one of four known.  I just read an article in the Winchester Winter 1996 magazine and there was a summary based on research from John Hawk, a volunteer at CFM.  His search of the records (serial 1 to 379,999) showed there were 118 12 inch barreled carbines and two 12 inch barreled rifles.  I sure haven’t ran across them.  Anyone else?  Were most shipped out of the country – foreign government contract?  I assume there were even more made – in the serial range from 380,000 to end of production.

Michael – how many 12 inchers have shown up in your survey?

Very cool little carbines.  And, I’d love to see one of those rifles.  

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 2284
Member Since:
March 20, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2
May 20, 2023 - 10:58 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost

Hello Steve,

I will have to do some more digging in my spreadsheet but I did find a couple of them pretty quickly.  This one, SN 681490 sold at RIA in Sept 2018 for $28,750!!  You are going to REALLY want one by that yardstick.  https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/74/1003/atf-exempted-winchester-model-1892-trapper-carbine-with-letters

Rob Kassab had one shown on his Rare Winchesters website for quite a while.  SN 693360.  But the images of it are no longer showing.

I have found 4 12 inch guns so far.  All SRC’s and 2 of those outside the letter range.

Michael

Signature-Pic.jpg

 

Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4097
Member Since:
November 19, 2006
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
3
May 20, 2023 - 11:21 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

twobit said
Hello Steve,

I will have to do some more digging in my spreadsheet but I did find a couple of them pretty quickly.  This one, SN 681490 sold at RIA in Sept 2018 for $28,750!!  You are going to REALLY want one by that yardstick.  https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/74/1003/atf-exempted-winchester-model-1892-trapper-carbine-with-letters

Rob Kassab had one shown on his Rare Winchesters website for quite a while.  SN 693360.  But the images of it are no longer showing.

I have found 4 12 inch guns so far.  All SRC’s and 4 of those outside the letter range.

Michael

  

Michael – 

 

Thanks for that information.  What I find most interesting is apparently none of the 118 twelve inch carbines that appear in the factory ledger – have surfaced.

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4097
Member Since:
November 19, 2006
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
4
May 20, 2023 - 11:46 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Michael – by the way, the RIA one sure beat the auction estimate!  I had not seen that one before.  It was used hard – which is to be expected – had a good amount of character.  Still, I’d rather have nice condition.  The one Huntley had that sold through Merz was much nicer.

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 2284
Member Since:
March 20, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
5
May 21, 2023 - 11:34 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

steve004 said
Michael – by the way, the RIA one sure beat the auction estimate!  I had not seen that one before.  It was used hard – which is to be expected – had a good amount of character.  Still, I’d rather have nice condition.  The one Huntley had that sold through Merz was much nicer.

  

Good morning Steve,

I mistyped my reply above.  Actually 2 of the 118 in the ledgers are in my data.  SN’s 60968 and 290849.  SN 60968 had been refinished and sold at Julia’s in Sept of 2012 for $22,000.  

44664.jpgImage Enlarger44664x1.jpgImage Enlarger

Michael

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments

Signature-Pic.jpg

 

Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4097
Member Since:
November 19, 2006
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
6
May 21, 2023 - 11:55 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Michael – 

Thanks for the update.  Interesting that only four total have come to light.  If roughly 120 were made during roughly the first third of production of the ’92, one wonders how many total were made.  What’s you’re feeling about a rough extrapolation of about 300 total produced?  I wonder if the ledger held any clue as to where many of them went.  Perhaps a large foreign order?  When they researched the ledger, a breakdown by caliber would have been interesting.  One would suppose the vast majority were .44-40.

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 2284
Member Since:
March 20, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
7
May 21, 2023 - 12:21 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Steve,

By far, the short rifle production is dominated by 44 WCF calibers.  Then 38 and almost none of the 32 or 25-20 chambers.  From the ledger work I have done many of the 12 inch carbines were 38 WCF caliber.  I have found at least 6 different orders in the ledger but have not checked all of them.

Michael

Signature-Pic.jpg

 

Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4097
Member Since:
November 19, 2006
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
8
May 21, 2023 - 12:23 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

twobit said
Steve,

By far, the short rifle production is dominated by 44 WCF calibers.  Then 38 and almost none of the 32 or 25-20 chambers.  From the ledger work I have done many of the 12 inch carbines were 38 WCF caliber.  I have found at least 6 different orders in the ledger but have not checked all of them.

Michael

  

Thanks Michael.  I suppose if there had been a large group of them on one order, that would have been noticed by now.  

Forum Timezone: UTC 0
Most Users Ever Online: 778
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
clarence: 6151
TXGunNut: 4865
Chuck: 4517
1873man: 4259
steve004: 4097
Big Larry: 2290
twobit: 2284
TR: 1690
mrcvs: 1656
Forum Stats:
Groups: 1
Forums: 17
Topics: 12500
Posts: 108516

 

Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 1727
Members: 8717
Moderators: 4
Admins: 3
Navigation