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Hello everyone, I am new member of WACA and this is my first post. Looking for some information on a pre 64 Model 70 I recently purchased. The rifle has a receiver serialized to 1949 with a matching bolt. The barrel is correctly stamped on the underside 25R and ’48. Now most “sightless” pre 64 model 70 barrels I have seen pictures of, mainly in Roger Rule’s book, of course have no front sight yet have a factory barrel boss with no dovetail cutout for a rear sight. This particular barrel has nothing on it at all. Smooth from one end to the other. Is this a common encounter or perhaps a highly prized find? Any information or comments is welcome. Thank You.
November 5, 2014
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Hi Phillip-
Welcome to WACA!!! I hope you enjoy your membership!!! 
What you are describing is not a “common encounter”. It is either a “highly prized find” or it’s a non-factory/modified barrel. Winchester did, apparently, sometimes omit the rear sight boss from standard contour barrels on special order, but this seems to have been only rarely requested. They also made stocks inlet for such standard contour barrels lacking the barrel boss, but again genuine examples are rarely seen.
From 1941 through 1947, the 30 GOV’T’06 Standard rifle “without sights” was specifically cataloged and given a unique Catalog Symbol (G7010C). It was also stated that any of the regular chamberings could be had “without sights” on special order. HOWEVER, in the era of integral forged front sight ramps, i.e. before 1952, what Winchester MEANT by “without sights” was that they would install blanks in the ramp and barrel dovetails. These “sightless” M70s were priced LOWER than the regular version with sights. It wasn’t until the mid- to late-1950s that they started making true “sightless” barrels that omitted the front ramp and rear sight dovetail. Most in/famous of these, of course, are the “Gopher Special” Featherweights of 1959-1963.
But omitting the barrel boss from a standard barrel was rarely done. The usual “sightless” standard rifles look like this.
A couple questions about your rifle… Can you post close-up photos of the barrel markings? It’s certainly possible to take a 1949 standard barrel and remove the front ramp and barrel boss on a lathe, leaving the original roll marks. That’s probably what Winchester did, but it can also be done “at home” by a well equipped machinist.
Is it still in an original M70 stock, and if so, what does the barrel channel inletting look like? Is the wood inlet for a barrel without rear sight boss, or has a void been filled in? Winchester would not do the latter. Is there a superfluous hole in the bottom of the fore end to accommodate a non-functional barrel bedding screw? As long as I’m asking lame questions, if the inletting is all perfect, are there large holes drilled into the stock under the butt plate? Reason for asking is that a Featherweight stock (not made until 1952) had an undersized barrel channel and no fore end bedding screw hole, such that it could be inlet for a standard barrel. But (at least most) Featherweight stocks also had holes drilled in the butt to save weight…
Sounds like an interesting rifle!!!
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
Hi Lou,
Thanks for the welcome and reply. I have been meaning to reply to you but work gets in the way.
Yes, the stock does have an area where the sight boss would have been, but it has been filled in with epoxy. The barrel screw hole on the stock also has been filled in with epoxy. The stock has been cut down, pad added, and polyurethane added. The stock is a original Model pre 64 model 70 stock. But is it the original stock to the rifle? Hard to say. It is not like the early Savage 99’s where everything was serialized, including the stock.
I agree that the barrel could have been removed and the front sight and rear boss could have been machined off. The barrel screw retainer would have been dovetailed in the bottom of the barrel. A dovetail patch would then have to be put in and machined round to match the countour of the barrel. That patch would stick out like a sore thumb under good lighting I my opinion. Even with a good blueing job. I can see no clear evidence that any of these items ever existed on this barrel. The blueing appear to be original and uniform throughout.
The rifle has an old Lyman All-American 10X scope on it. So someone was doing some distance shooting with it. Prarie dogs maybe? Paper?
I am trying to take some decent pictures of the assembled and disassembled rifle but it is hard to do with a cell phone and crappy lighting. I will find a way to get some good pictures. Then I will have to figure out how to upload them to the forum page so you can take a look. Be patient, I’m not the most tech savy person when it comes to some of this. Until I get the picutres uploaded the sightless barrel mystery continues.
Thanks for your input.
Phil
November 5, 2014
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Hi Phil-
FWIW… The dovetail cut into the bottom of the barrel boss for the barrel bedding screw escutcheon, like the rear sight dovetail on top, would be entirely removed when the barrel boss was turned down. No need to plug it, as it wouldn’t be there…
Of course it’s hard for the average person to turn down a barrel so precisely as to blend the taper perfectly without affecting the roll markings. And of course the barrel would have to have been reblued after modification, whereas the factory would have just made it that way. So looking closely at the roll marks, polish marks in the barrel, and proof marks may provide you with a clue. The “W-P” proofs were stamped on completely finished/assembled rifles after proof testing. So the proof should be “rough” (not polished over) and not blued.
Here is a possible (???) factory M70 carbine barrel without rear boss. Of course it still has the integral front ramp and was presumably intended to be used with the receiver sight.
Good Luck!!!
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
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