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Pre-64 Model 70 in 257 Roberts
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June 3, 2024 - 4:34 pm
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Pretty excited to have picked this one up over the weekend. 1950 Model 70 in 257 Roberts. The quarter bore has become interesting me in recent years. I’ve got a Remington Model 8 in 25 Rem also.

Just thought I’d share with the group. Any input would be great.

Win 70 257 Roberts

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June 3, 2024 - 4:47 pm
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Welcome!

Lou will be along shortly and want to discuss your rifle further.

Bert

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June 3, 2024 - 5:12 pm
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Congratulations on your new addition!

A Model 70 in .257 Roberts has been my “go-to” deer rifle for the past 20 years. I stopped using rifles with more power (and given Newton’s Third Law, inevitably more RECOIL!) once I figured out there are not degrees of dead. The deer never noticed the difference, and tipped right over from a well placed .257 bullet.  And my shoulder is certainly happier without the extra recoil. Ned Roberts came up with a great deer caliber, and in a vintage Model 70 it is near to perfection as a hunting rifle.

BRP

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June 3, 2024 - 5:56 pm
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Rare find in a 70, but your sling was not assembled the “GI” way:  the hooks on the upper strap should face same direction as those on lower strap, so run upper strap back through brass loop in the opposite direction.

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June 3, 2024 - 6:11 pm
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Thanks all. Yes, the sling came on the rifle that way. It won’t be there long.

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June 3, 2024 - 6:34 pm
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35Rem said
Thanks all. Yes, the sling came on the rifle that way. It won’t be there long.

If that sling is marked “Lawrence” or “Boyt,” I know someone who’d pay a good price for it.

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June 3, 2024 - 6:39 pm
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I’ll look it over, but my first impression is it was a recent manufacture knock off.

 

Question on cleaning it up: Has anyone done the rust conversion steam bath and carding wheel on these? The receiver has the dull bead blasted type finish. I don’t anticipate that it would effect it, but wonder if anyone has tried. I want to clean it up, but don’t want to alter it, either.

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June 4, 2024 - 2:02 am
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35Rem said
I’ll look it over, but my first impression is it was a recent manufacture knock off.

 

Question on cleaning it up: Has anyone done the rust conversion steam bath and carding wheel on these? The receiver has the dull bead blasted type finish. I don’t anticipate that it would effect it, but wonder if anyone has tried. I want to clean it up, but don’t want to alter it, either.

  

Welcome to WACA

Very nice, honest rifle

No idea what a rust conversion steam bath and carding wheel are, I’d just wipe the gun down and put a filler in the dovetail

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June 4, 2024 - 2:11 am
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Tedk said No idea what a rust conversion steam bath and carding wheel are, I’d just wipe the gun down and put a filler in the dovetail 

Neither do I, but the mere sound of it alarms me.

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June 4, 2024 - 6:32 pm
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Not scary. It’s just the old rust blueing process of converting red oxide to black oxide. Mark Novak has a lot of videos on the process. He calls it conservation. It works wonders.

Thanks for the responses. Anyone know the barrel twist rate off hand?

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June 4, 2024 - 6:37 pm
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1 in 10” (Oops!)

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June 4, 2024 - 10:31 pm
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Hi 35 REM-

Nice looking rifle, congrats!!!

Barrel specs are in this Winchester document (from 1938):

M70-Barrel-Specs-1938-copy.jpgImage Enlarger

By coincidence it happens that I know Mark Novak personally… I talked with him a few times in SC before I ever found out that he did all those YouTube videos… Laugh  On the one hand, he is a man of strong and independent mind whose opinions send some collectors into convulsions… WinkOn the other hand, I agree with the distinction he makes between “preservation” and “restoration”… “Red rust” is never good and can be converted (protected from further deterioration) without “refinishing”… Just my take… 

You gun looks pretty nice to me and unless it has active rust somewhere I can’t see, I think I’d lean toward Tedk’s “just wipe it down” aphorism…  Maybe a little Kroil and a cotton cloth… At most Kroil + gentle 4-0 steel wool.  If it’s got red rust I’d talk to Mark…

Thanks for the post,

Lou

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June 5, 2024 - 3:09 am
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The so-called “period Lyman aperture sight” is about 30 years too new for that rifle, so the seller has a rather broad definition of “period.”  

BRP

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June 5, 2024 - 3:37 am
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Hi Chuck-

BRP is right (of course)… “Stayset” knobs first became available in 1950 and only on “half block” Lyman receiver sights.  This rifle (S/N 52860) from 1945 is a little too early for that sight…  If it had a factory receiver sight it would likely have had a stock inlet for a full block Lyman 48WJS with target knobs.

For me the most annoying thing is that they don’t show the barrel roll marks or the front sight, which “should” be a Redfield 254 (not 255).  The 7M/M is rare enough that people will fake them, so without pics you can’t even be confident that the gun is a legit (albeit possibly upgraded) 7M/M… 

I’m not dissing the gun or CWOCA, but I’d need a LOT more before I’d bid on that one…

Best,

Lou

WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters

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June 5, 2024 - 5:05 pm
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Louis Luttrell said
Hi Chuck-

BRP is right (of course)… “Stayset” knobs first became available in 1950 and only on “half block” Lyman receiver sights.  This rifle (S/N 52860) from 1945 is a little too early for that sight…  If it had a factory receiver sight it would likely have had a stock inlet for a full block Lyman 48WJS with target knobs.

For me the most annoying thing is that they don’t show the barrel roll marks or the front sight, which “should” be a Redfield 254 (not 255).  The 7M/M is rare enough that people will fake them, so without pics you can’t even be confident that the gun is a legit (albeit possibly upgraded) 7M/M… 

I’m not dissing the gun or CWOCA, but I’d need a LOT more before I’d bid on that one…

Best,

Lou

  

I’m just learning about the Model 70’s.  I am not bidding on it either.  One thing in my favor is I can go look at it.  I’m just not smart enough to know what I am looking at.  I was wondering why, of the 2 they have, this one is valued so much more?

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June 5, 2024 - 6:58 pm
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Chuck said I was wondering why, of the 2 they have, this one is valued so much more?
  

Just one little thing: that “7 MM” mark on the brl.

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June 5, 2024 - 9:34 pm
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Hi Chuck-

If you’re talking about the other 7 M/M M70 in that auction (Lot 149), it’s because that rifle is a train wreck of somebody’s Bubba project going terribly wrong… EmbarassedCry

First off, the receiver is S/N 418133 from 1957.  It is highly unlikely that an original 7 M/M would have been made that late. The chambering was discontinued after 1949. The latest bunch of 7 M/M M70s in the surveys are a pretty good number done in the 297,000 to 300,000 range (1954).  Part of the last round of “barrel clean-up”.

Add to that the rifle is a mess.  Worn Monte Carlo standard stock and action/barrel, a third hole added to the bridge, sights removed, etc. Painful to look at… Cry Since even the receiver is trash, the only potential value in that rifle would be the 7 M/M barrel IF it’s legit and not shot out or pitted.  Since they don’t show the barrel markings I cannot even venture an opinion.  IMHO the estimate on Lot 149 is ridiculously OPTIMISTIC… 

OTOH… Lot 151, a supposed 7 M/M Super Grade, presents well in the photos (subject to all the Caveats I mentioned above).  If it were a legit 95+% Super Grade, then it probably is a $10K gun.  Look at this one (sold for $9.5K on Pre64win.com).  This one is “correct”, except for the wrong barrel blank and “elevator tracks” (I didn’t say “genuine” because I don’t know)…  But it is made up of (mostly) the right parts…

https://pre64win.com/collections/rifles/products/7-m-m-7x57mm-mauser-super-grade-rifle-1941

Just my take…

Lou

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