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original 1873/1876 cleaning rod
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February 22, 2017 - 11:00 pm
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All, I am trying to purchase an original cleaning rod for my 1873 and 1876.  I would be happy with a four or five section.  As you know, there are many fakes on the market, don’t want to get taken.  Here is what I have read about the dimensions and what to look for,

Probably 75% of the rods for sale at gun shows are not original.  The thread on original rods is 9-32, which is obsolete.  The repros are usually 10-32. If you have a micrometer you can measure the thread diameter.  It should measure about .175.  If it measures about .190, it’s a repro.

The other dimension to check is the rod diameter. It should be .234″ not .250″ which is the closest commercially available size.  The A and B does not mean a thing as far as anybody has been able to tell. I always figure they went to the B because the A stamp broke.

I am not sure what the A-B means, but the dimensions are the key.  I am looking at one that is clearly .25″, but appears old, and is claimed to be from a 1873.  If anyone has an idea, please let me know, thanks

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February 22, 2017 - 11:42 pm
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Elliot,

If you can post some good pictures of them I could probable tell if the are bad repos but they made a run of perfect repos many years ago so I just make sure they look right. A lot of the bad repos had the slot cut into them rather than punched in. As far as the A or B, I have never heard of that relating to the cleaning rods. The 73 has a A or B in the serial number of later guns which nobody has been able to tell what it means.

Bob

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February 23, 2017 - 12:52 am
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Bob, thanks, I think my quotes came from an original post of yours.  They are both about to end on eBay, item #132096613173 and 292027581032.

They are about to end, the sellers were very ‘strange’ in their answers to my questions about the dimensions.  They are both .25″ and they said the TPI was 30.  That would clearly make them repos, according to the previous info.  One seller claimed that they were all different in size, because they were hand forged.  Hopefully someone will be able to define this, thanks, Elliot

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February 23, 2017 - 1:03 am
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Elliot, Both sets are not correct. The brass end is too long and the wrong shape.

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February 23, 2017 - 1:56 am
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Bob, thanks, I feel like I should inform eBay, these people are lying to the buyers.  They clearly state that they are original vintage cleaning rods!  It is very troubling.  The original set I have is missing the brass knob end if you know anyone that has an extra.  Where do you think is the best place to buy an original?  thanks again for the info. Elliot

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February 23, 2017 - 2:42 am
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Elliot,  Some people selling them can’t tell real from repos, they might of removed them from a gun so they think they must be real but they have been repoing them for many years so they can have the old aging look. There are good ones around, some do show up on eBay and some on dealer sites. Here is a site that has some sets forsale. One set has the steel end not a brass which is correct but you don’t see them to often. That is what the shape of the brass end is suppose to look like. I can’t say I have ever seen a brass end for sale.

http://www.antiquearmsinc.com/loadingtools.htm

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February 23, 2017 - 2:57 pm
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1873man said
Elliot,  Some people selling them can’t tell real from repos, they might of removed them from a gun so they think they must be real but they have been repoing them for many years so they can have the old aging look. There are good ones around, some do show up on eBay and some on dealer sites. Here is a site that has some sets forsale. One set has the steel end not a brass which is correct but you don’t see them to often. That is what the shape of the brass end is suppose to look like. I can’t say I have ever seen a brass end for sale.

http://www.antiquearmsinc.com/loadingtools.htm

Bob  

Bob,

So are you saying those sets of cleaning rods on that website are REPOs and not Originals?

Sincerely,

Maverick

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February 23, 2017 - 6:57 pm
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Those are real ones.

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February 24, 2017 - 12:07 am
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Bob, thanks for your help, both of the eBay ones sold.  It is a shame to see someone not tell the truth.  You may have misunderstood my poorly worded statement of my needs.  I am missing the section with the brass knob, not just the knob.  I have the eye end, and three sections, just not the knob section.  However, I have two other Winchesters that are missing the entire cleaning rod.

Thanks for the link, I have gone there.  I am interested in either of the two, only issue is my 73 is a 32, these say they will only work with the 44 or 38?  Is the tip too large?  I assume that the diameter of the shafts are all the same with the vintage cleaning rods?  Elliot

BTW, we were both up way too late last night!

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February 24, 2017 - 12:36 am
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Elliot,

The 32 caliber 73’s never had a cleaning rods.

Bob

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February 24, 2017 - 12:49 am
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Bob, thanks, my ignorance, even though the butt stock doesn’t have the storage area, I have read that there was a smaller sized cleaning rod that would work on the smaller bores, except for 22, was there any truth to that?  Or, are you saying that they are all the same sized ‘eye’ end.  thanks again for all your help, Elliot

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February 24, 2017 - 12:59 am
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Elliot, There never was a Winchester supplied cleaning rod for the 32’s, there is probably a aftermarket one that people bought for them. The 32 stocks are drilled for rods since they used the same stocks but they put on a solid butt plate on. The eyes on all the cleaning rods are the same size on all of them I have seen.

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February 25, 2017 - 6:16 am
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Bob, thanks once again, will you be at the Tulsa show?  Elliot

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February 25, 2017 - 1:36 pm
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Yes I will unless something happens.

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February 28, 2017 - 6:02 pm
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Bob and all, ok, I am trying to learn, even though I am an old guy!  However, I sure wish the leasons didn’t cost so much, ha.  I don’t mind the $5/10 ones, its the $500/1000 ones that will get you.  My luck recently has not been good.

I have purchased one of the rods, I hope it is original, if not, I can go back to the seller, but I hope it is.  thanks, ElliotDSC_2480.JPGImage Enlarger

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February 28, 2017 - 6:59 pm
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Elliot,

Rods look real to me.

Bob

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February 28, 2017 - 7:26 pm
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Bob, thanks very much, how did you make your decision?  I had a four that was missing the fifth section w/brass end, this three came up so I grabbed.  I wish I had a way to test for 9-32.  I know the 9s are obsolete, is there anyone that still sells them?  That would certainly be one way to test.  It did mic as you stated.  Maybe my luck is changing?  Did I ask you if you were coming to Tulsa, how about anyone else?  thanks again, Elliot

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February 28, 2017 - 7:43 pm
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Bob, sorry, read you were coming, will you have a table?  thanks, Elliot

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February 28, 2017 - 11:52 pm
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Elliot,

Yes I have a table I share with other guys. Its on the lower level, 4 LA 10

Bob

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March 1, 2017 - 12:20 am
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Elliot, here’s a couple sets I have that I’m told and believe to be originals by the ends and the dimensions. 

The top set is for my model 1873 Carbine (3-piece); notice the individual rod lengths differ from the 1873 Rifle (4-piece) rod lengths.

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Winchester Model 1873 44-40 circa 1886

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