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One of our members is putting together a nice display of western carbines and he has asked the following: “I can’t find anything in books or anything other than opinions from online forums which exactly explains how and why the term “saddle” ring came about. All the conventional wisdom and theories are only conjecture. Can you or other WACA members help me? ”
Winchester and other manufactures referred to these devises as “sling rings” for obvious reasons. Can anyone help to shed light on how they became to be called “saddle rings”?
Thanks in advance…………..
WACA Life Benefactor Member
NRA Life Member
George always referred to the as “sling rings” too….
Rob Kassab
Director & Executive Editor
Winchester Arms Collectors Association
To greatly enhance your collecting experience, join WACA. It's only $35 / year (eMembership), and you'll be able to directly upload photos on the forum, receive the e-version of our quarterly magazine and have full online access to our magazine archive database, along with many other member benefits such as 15 additional record searches for Cody Firearms Museum members. It’s easy to join at http://winchestercollector.org/register/.
Likely a product of Hollywood when these guys in the old westerns reference their “saddle gun”, and being that most “saddle guns” in the movies were carbines, with the ring, the word saddle became associated with the ring because its a saddle gun?? Kind of like the reference to a “hog leg”. Maybe some sort of early western slang to refer to a carbine as opposed to a rifle??.
When you have a carbine or rifle in a scabbard affixed to your saddle rig your receiver is covered by the scabbard, so a saddle ring seems useless from that standpoint unless you tie off to your saddle before its slid in all the way–keep it from backing out down the trail?? If you were worried about your rifle or carbine working its way out of the scabbard it would be easier to wrap it at the wrist to keep it cinched down until needed.
Just a W.A.G
1892takedown @sbcglobal.net ......NRA Endowment Life Member.....WACA Member
"God is great.....beer is good.....and people are crazy"... Billy Currington
Hello,,,,
,
From The Twilight Zone, It’s 6:30 pm, 09 May 2015, I didn’t cut my Grass today because I wanted to get this Saddle Ring thing squared away for Rick. Besides my grass will only grow another 2 ” higher by tomorrow.
Back in the Day, When I was Riding the Trail (yes that’s me), I didn’t care for a Saddle Scabbard. Why did they call it a Saddle Scabbard because it was attached to the Saddle with two (2) spring hooks and the Saddle had two (2) Saddle Rings to attach the Scabbard to. I was poorer Back in The Day (yes poorer than I am today) and I didn’t have the Money to Buy a Saddle Scabbard, let lone the two (2) spring hooks to attach the Saddle Scabbard to the Saddle Rings on My Saddle. I did have enough Money for one (1) spring hook though and being my Saddle had Saddle Rings to attach things to, I bought one (1) spring hook and attached my Winchester Carbine Saddle Ring to My Saddle, utilizing the Saddle Ring that is on the Saddle, to the Saddle Ring on My Winchester Carbine.
Holy Geeeeezus, If that didn’t confuse you (it’s kinda like, who is on First Base), you are better than me, but hopefully you can comprehend what I am trying to say. There are just to many Saddle Rings in that paragraph to try and convey that terminology. I Think that’s why George just called them Sling Rings, anyway My Buddy Oliver liked the terminology of a Saddle Ring better, as it was more appropriate.
Now, here is something to contemplate? Why didn’t they call a Saddle Scabbard, a Saddle Holster,,,,
.
Enough of that, just have to add the Disclaimer:
#1 – I kept this Post short so maybe you would read the whole thing.
#2 – Take This Post for What it is Worth, because it’s From The Twilight Zone.
#3 – If reading this Post gave you a Headache, Go take a soothing Bubble Bath.
#4 – If that didn’t cure your Headache, take two (2) Aspirins and Call Me in the Morning.
#5 – Rick, this is just my opinion about the Saddle Ring Thing. But I think I remembered it the Way it Was, Back in the Day.
So, It’s 9:25 pm, 09 May 2015. It really didn’t take me that long to type this Post. I got a Headache from Typing to many Saddle Rings and I had to take a Soothing Bubble Bath and Rick, I only had to take three (3) smoke breaks….
.
Enjoy Your evening, It’s Back to The Twilight Zone for me……. 
hokie
"I Would Have Rather Lived Through The Industrial Revaluation"
"Instead of The Space Age"
From
The Twilight Zone
Hey Hokie, I have a way for you to type about 1/3 less than you do…..just capitalize the first word in each sentence, instead of just about every word! That way, you can get more smoke breaks in! 🙂
Rob Kassab
Director & Executive Editor
Winchester Arms Collectors Association
To greatly enhance your collecting experience, join WACA. It's only $35 / year (eMembership), and you'll be able to directly upload photos on the forum, receive the e-version of our quarterly magazine and have full online access to our magazine archive database, along with many other member benefits such as 15 additional record searches for Cody Firearms Museum members. It’s easy to join at http://winchestercollector.org/register/.
Hey There Rob,,,,
I think trying to Remember that might just put me over the Edge. as I have Enough to try to Remember.
I just Capitalize the Pertinent (wow, had to play scrabble with that word) Words.
Thanks for the Suggestion……..
hokie
"I Would Have Rather Lived Through The Industrial Revaluation"
"Instead of The Space Age"
From
The Twilight Zone
LOL! Now quit wasting time talking to me and get writing for the next Winchester Collector!
Rob Kassab
Director & Executive Editor
Winchester Arms Collectors Association
To greatly enhance your collecting experience, join WACA. It's only $35 / year (eMembership), and you'll be able to directly upload photos on the forum, receive the e-version of our quarterly magazine and have full online access to our magazine archive database, along with many other member benefits such as 15 additional record searches for Cody Firearms Museum members. It’s easy to join at http://winchestercollector.org/register/.
Holy Geeeeezus Rob,,,,,
,
Are you sure you don’t need to take a Soothing Bubble Bath.
If not, just do as prescribed, take two (2) Aspirins and Call me in the Morning….
"I Would Have Rather Lived Through The Industrial Revaluation"
"Instead of The Space Age"
From
The Twilight Zone
Hey Hokie:
I think that I am going to have to take a little while to contemplate that detailed answer! Since I no longer smoke, I suspect that a couple of martinis around sundown should due the trick………
WACA Life Benefactor Member
NRA Life Member
I think the term “saddle ring” predates Winchester by a long time. If you look at some of the European cavalry carbines from the 1800’s many of them had a ring afixed to the side of the rifle or musket. They didn’t use saddle scabbards and the gun was attached directly to the saddle. Google images for cavalry carbines.
Rob. First off the purpose of the saddle as for as I have always read was not to attach the carbine to the saddle which would be a silly idea at best
but to attach the gun to ones shoulder by means of a special sling?
But back to your original question I have been collecting Marlins for several years but I also have a special interest for Winchesters as well and am now
trying to learn about them as well. But as a Marlin collector from years past I was always told and assumed that the term Saddle Ring Carbine was
considered a Winchester term as well as the term Trapper just some thoughts
Online
My copy of the 1878 catalog on page 32 under Nomenclature and Price List of Component Parts, uses the words “Sling Ring and Staple for Carbine” and the price for a Sling Ring & Staple for the Model 1866, Model 1873 & Model 1876 were all each .52 cents. It is also interesting to me to note on the previous page 31 there is no such tern as a Firing Pin. The catalog uses the terms “Breech Pin” and “Piston” for the firing pin.
So I imagine with a lot of other terms we use today they are merely “Collectors Terms” and were not always used by the factory as such.
Sincerely,
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
You are correct Maverick. Just like Winchester never used the term “Trapper”. it was a term that an early Winchester collector (Lewis Yearout) came up with in the 1960’s…..
Rob Kassab
Director & Executive Editor
Winchester Arms Collectors Association
To greatly enhance your collecting experience, join WACA. It's only $35 / year (eMembership), and you'll be able to directly upload photos on the forum, receive the e-version of our quarterly magazine and have full online access to our magazine archive database, along with many other member benefits such as 15 additional record searches for Cody Firearms Museum members. It’s easy to join at http://winchestercollector.org/register/.
The fact that the original catalog calls it a “Sling Ring” makes me wonder if it was used for a single point rifle sling. (see GentlemanJims’ post)
As a retired Navy K9 handler having deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan, I have a single point sling for my M4 (bought it meself at Pendleton prior to deploying) that uses a quick release hook. it makes sense from the position of the “Saddle / Sling” ring that it serves the same purpose. I can see in my minds eye the soldiers of the period on the range needing quicker access to their rifles than a scabbard or hooking to ones saddle affords..
In fact if you google ‘Indian wars cavalry carbine sling’, you will see what I mean.
I hope I’m not coming across as a know-it-all. 
Maverick said
My copy of the 1878 catalog on page 32 under Nomenclature and Price List of Component Parts, uses the words “Sling Ring and Staple for Carbine” and the price for a Sling Ring & Staple for the Model 1866, Model 1873 & Model 1876 were all each .52 cents. It is also interesting to me to note on the previous page 31 there is no such tern as a Firing Pin. The catalog uses the terms “Breech Pin” and “Piston” for the firing pin.So I imagine with a lot of other terms we use today they are merely “Collectors Terms” and were not always used by the factory as such.
Sincerely,
Maverick
Although this post is over 20yrs ago, that’s the great thing about this forum. I was searching SRC & stumbled onto this post & I totally agree with Maverick. A lot of the labels associated to Winchester firearms today were coined by the collecting community & not Winchester.
Saddle ring(sling ring), Deluxe(Special Sporting & Fancy, Trapper, firing pin(breech pin), etc.
I think sling ring & staple or sling ring & stud are correct but I guess saddle ring sounds cool & associates the firearm to a horse, cavalry, or Wild West. Jmo
As a side note while searching the topic, I learned the 1886 carbine has a 22” barrel & not 20”. I didn’t know that, but then again I’ve never had the opportunity to own one or even hold one so I’m schooling myself continually in this addiction that started as a faint interest.
RickC
RickC said
Although this post is over 20yrs ago…
Don’t have to go back 20 yrs, Rick–subject has been brought up much more recently than that, in discussions of its relationship to the traditional cavalry sling in use since the flintlock period. You’re certainly right about collectors making up terms that aren’t historical or sensible.
clarence said
Don’t have to go back 20 yrs, Rick–subject has been brought up much more recently than that, in discussions of its relationship to the traditional cavalry sling in use since the flintlock period. You’re certainly right about collectors making up terms that aren’t historical or sensible.
So true Clarence. If I listed a Winchester & described it as a sling ring carbine or Special sporting rifle, I would prob get several emails about my description being wrong.
I mis quoted the original date of this post & it was 2015 not 1999.
RickC said
So true Clarence. If I listed a Winchester & described it as a sling ring carbine or Special sporting rifle, I would prob get several emails about my description being wrong.
I mis quoted the original date of this post & it was 2015 not 1999.
That is when you politely educate the people who emailed you that your description is accurate per Winchester’s original literature. I have to do this quite frequently, but as time goes by, some of the “know-it-all” old timers are learning something new!
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
That is when you politely educate the people who emailed you that your description is accurate per Winchester’s original literature. I have to do this quite frequently, but as time goes by, some of the “know-it-all” old timers are learning something new!
Bert
I would indeed Bert. I prefer to call them as Winchester did by the original name or designation if the rifles year & configuration is applicable. Surprised more seller/collectors who know the difference don’t do the same.
RickC
Brad and I had much discussion while writing our book regarding original terminology versus modern collector-speak. We at first stuck to original Winchester terms but as time went on it became apparent that in order to make for an easier read by today’s collectors, we needed to use some modern terms as well. From page 9:
We chose to use original WRACo terminology whenever possible. This was difficult at times and required some modification. For example, the terms Saddle Ring Carbine and Deluxe were not used as they are today by collectors. We hope that our choices will be both sensible and clear to the reader.
Rob Kassab
Director & Executive Editor
Winchester Arms Collectors Association
To greatly enhance your collecting experience, join WACA. It's only $35 / year (eMembership), and you'll be able to directly upload photos on the forum, receive the e-version of our quarterly magazine and have full online access to our magazine archive database, along with many other member benefits such as 15 additional record searches for Cody Firearms Museum members. It’s easy to join at http://winchestercollector.org/register/.
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