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"Old Henry" and Model 94 carbine
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January 9, 2022 - 12:46 pm
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There a recent movie out titled, “Old Henry.”  I watched it last night and greatly enjoyed it.  It’s a western of course.  It takes place circa 1906. Beautiful scenery.  It stars Tim Blake Nelson and also, in a lesser role, Trace Adkins.  Both do a great job.  There’s plenty of gun play with Colt single-actions being the most prominent firearm.  Early in the movie, a bad guy sitting on a horse takes out a man running down a hill, with a Sharps (sporting a tang sight).  Trace Adkins has a M1897 shotgun and you see him shooting it while bird hunting.  While I recommend the movie, there was one aspect that left me sputtering to my wife for the rest of the evening.  “Old Henry” (Tim Blake Nelson) uses a ’94 carbine.  I can’t be sure, but I sure thought it looked like an angle-eject ’94 with a side push button safety and Uncle Mike swivel studs!  Again, this is supposed to be c. 1906.  The clothing worn, etc. was very authentic.  I rented it from Redbox but I see Netflix has it too:

https://dvd.netflix.com/Movie/Old-Henry/81498755

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January 10, 2022 - 3:57 pm
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You are correct!  I saw that and thought I was going to be sick.

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January 10, 2022 - 4:14 pm
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Rick, these production companies should hire us to be the historical consultants.  Smile

I call myself a collector as it sounds better than hoarder

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January 10, 2022 - 6:09 pm
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Is it any better than when in the 1950&60s? When they would take the forearm off a 92 and paint the receiver with gold paint.

 

What would really start throwing them is if you got into the 73s not being 1st or 2nd models.

Sincerely,

Maverick

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January 10, 2022 - 7:12 pm
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Maverick said
Is it any better than when in the 1950&60s? When they would take the forearm off a 92 and paint the receiver with gold paint.

FAR better, despite the discrepancies that have been noted.  Most production companies now make a fairly serious effort toward historical accuracy, though often failing through ignorance or budgetary constraints, whereas prior to the ’60s prop departments merely used whatever old guns had been accumulated over the yrs, going back to silent movie days.  And given the profound level of ignorance which they knew existed within the general population, not merely about guns, but about other weapons, costumes, most other props, such an attitude of indifference is not surprising. 

Gold paint was also the “engraving” on the “1 of 1000” used in Winchester ’73.

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January 10, 2022 - 9:05 pm
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One thing I do enjoy about films and TV shows from Britain often seen on PBS is the authenticity of all most all aspects and not only firearms but also automobiles, steam locomotives, aircraft etc. . Apparently the producers get lots of negative feedback from viewers if something isn’t accurate historically. 

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January 10, 2022 - 9:53 pm
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Dave K. said
One thing I do enjoy about films and TV shows from Britain often seen on PBS is the authenticity of all most all aspects and not only firearms but also automobiles, steam locomotives, aircraft etc. . Apparently the producers get lots of negative feedback from viewers if something isn’t accurate historically.   

Except that historical accuracy must end where the BBC’s 20% race quota begins; thus viewers of the latest BBC production of Henry VI must accept a Negress of Amazonian proportions as petite blond-haired, blue-eyed Queen Margaret of Anjou, of whom many portraits exist; the play, for those not familiar with it, is not a comedy, despite the laughable absurdity of this casting decision.  This year, in a BBC miniseries on the life of Queen Anne Boleyn, of whom many portraits also exist, her part is played by another actress devoid of even the slightest trace of Caucasian ancestry.

The best French-made historical films & series (which I knew nothing about until obtaining the Curiosity Stream streaming channel) are every bit the equal of the best BBC productions, without the huge dose of PC crammed down your throat.  Productions by the film company called Arte France are in a class by themselves for meticulous historical accuracy & the highest production standards.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/22/black-lives-matter-bbc-introduces-diversity-quota-pledges-100m/

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January 11, 2022 - 1:56 am
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clarence said

Except that historical accuracy must end where the BBC’s 20% race quota begins; thus viewers of the latest BBC production of Henry VI must accept a Negress of Amazonian proportions as petite blond-haired, blue-eyed Queen Margaret of Anjou, of whom many portraits exist; the play, for those not familiar with it, is not a comedy, despite the laughable absurdity of this casting decision.  This year, in a BBC miniseries on the life of Queen Anne Boleyn, of whom many portraits also exist, her part is played by another actress devoid of even the slightest trace of Caucasian ancestry.

The best French-made historical films & series (which I knew nothing about until obtaining the Curiosity Stream streaming channel) are every bit the equal of the best BBC productions, without the huge dose of PC crammed down your throat.  Productions by the film company called Arte France are in a class by themselves for meticulous historical accuracy & the highest production standards.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/22/black-lives-matter-bbc-introduces-diversity-quota-pledges-100m/  

Clarence, I totally agree with you about the recent BBC programmes of late. I usually try to disregard skin in the actors but a non caucasian playing the role of Anne Boleyn is a stretch !  .Historically only one doubtful portrait of Anne exists with only that vague idea of what she actually looked like but she definitely was caucasian. One thing also that I like about BBC unlike the usuall American/Canadian fare is that the actors and actresses don’t all look like Hollywood starlets with perfect figures and brilliant white teeth (although nice to look at)and quite often resemble the historical person they represent.  I also like to watch the New York Met operas and one recent one that I watched was La Fille du Regiment and the lead role of a French peasant girl ,Marie was sung by the South African soprano Pretty Yende. Her dark skin colour did not distract me one bit and her voice was heavenly. Opera’s aren’t noted for historical accuracy and the roles of a non white persons are far and few between so maybe not a good comparison but there are many Black and Asian singers who deserve a chance on the stage so maybe that’s what BBC is considering as well since there are many talented non white actors who should be given an opportunity. I  generally like French films and TV series as well. Nothing to do with Winchesters so my apology.

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January 11, 2022 - 3:12 am
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Dave K. said

 
 Opera’s aren’t noted for historical accuracy and the roles of a non white persons are far and few between so maybe not a good comparison but there are many Black and Asian singers who deserve a chance on the stage so maybe that’s what BBC is considering as well since there are many talented non white actors who should be given an opportunity.

Gee, Dave, are you really defending this quota system?  BBC produces far more shows with contemporary, usually urban, settings than medieval historical dramas, so there are AMPLE opportunities for non-whites in productions that don’t slap the viewer in the face with outrageous PC absurdities; but the slap in the face isn’t incidental or inadvertent, it’s an organic part of the PC agenda: “you’ll take it & like it!” 

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January 11, 2022 - 4:14 am
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Clarence,  I am not defending the quota system merely pointed out that the rational might be for these “absurdities” in the BBC and elsewhere to be considered to allow equal opportunity..  Back to my comparison to opera for many decades Black and Asian singers were not given opportunies to perform. Consider perhaps the fine contralto  Marion Anderson who had to sing at the Lincoln Memorial after being refused to perform at the Daughters of the American Revolution Hall or Paul Robeson who went to France to perform. Meanwhile white singers were and still are given Black or Asian roles such as Placido Domingo as Othello. 

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January 11, 2022 - 5:14 am
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Dave K. said
Clarence,  I am not defending the quota system merely pointed out that the rational might be for these “absurdities” in the BBC and elsewhere to be considered to allow equal opportunity..  Back to my comparison to opera for many decades Black and Asian singers were not given opportunies to perform. Consider perhaps the fine contralto  Marion Anderson who had to sing at the Lincoln Memorial after being refused to perform at the Daughters of the American Revolution Hall or Paul Robeson who went to France to perform. Meanwhile white singers were and still are given Black or Asian roles such as Placido Domingo as Othello.   

When is there an end of paying for mistakes in the distant past? Not even after the destruction or desecration of hundreds of memorials to white Americans revered by a large proportion of the American public, from Andrew Jackson to Theodore Roosevelt to Woodrow Wilson?  (And in the UK, even Churchill!)  No need for a 20% quota applied to commercial TV advertising in this country, because the current ratio is easily 50/50, as anyone who watches US TV can attest; the tail wags the dog.

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January 11, 2022 - 2:09 pm
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Clarence, This is an interesting topic and as always with you I enjoy the banter but we are now way off the subject for this thread and it may be offensive to other members. If you wish to continue I would be delighted if you send me a PM and we caan discuss it further We are going through these same struggles with desecrations of monuments, burning of churches and the removal of historical figures names from buildings in Canada for the  alleged and real sins of the past and it is troubling for me also and I can see your viewpoint. If you have been to Britain in the last few years you can see the change in racial demographics as the colonial chickens have come to roost.

Now I finally saw that clip with the side eject 94 in Old Henry and it seems stupid to be accurate with so many firearms and then miss this important one.What were they thinking?

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January 12, 2022 - 4:39 am
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Here’s another outrageous mistake.  Years ago, I was commissioned to make two sets of holsters and cartridge belts for a movie that was going into production.   It was called “Gunsmoke, Return to Dodge” staring James Arness.   I was eager to see the movie after it was finally released……….until I saw Matt Dillon pull a 7 1/2″ Ruger Blackhawk out of his holster.  I thought I was seeing things, but I’ve watched  it several times and it’s still a  Blackhawk. 

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January 12, 2022 - 4:31 pm
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win4575 said
Here’s another outrageous mistake.  Years ago, I was commissioned to make two sets of holsters and cartridge belts for a movie that was going into production.   It was called “Gunsmoke, Return to Dodge” staring James Arness.   I was eager to see the movie after it was finally released……….until I saw Matt Dillon pull a 7 1/2″ Ruger Blackhawk out of his holster.  I thought I was seeing things, but I’ve watched  it several times and it’s still a  Blackhawk.   

That is pretty outrageous – about equal to Tim Blake Nelson (“Old Henry”) using a ’94 AE carbine circa 1906.

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January 13, 2022 - 5:21 am
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Hollywood is Hollywood.  Google “Hollywood Whitewashing.”

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January 13, 2022 - 4:19 pm
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Huck Riley said
Hollywood is Hollywood.  Google “Hollywood Whitewashing.”  

The fact that Hollywood rarely equals reality is not surprising.  In fact, in the last many years, the advent of, “reality” television shows is a great example of how focused Hollywood is on unreality.  

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January 13, 2022 - 4:37 pm
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steve004 said

The fact that Hollywood rarely equals reality is not surprising.  In fact, in the last many years, the advent of, “reality” television shows is a great example of how focused Hollywood is on unreality.    

Finding out the gross misrepresentation perpetrated on viewers by the producers of History Channel’s long running series “Life Below Zero,” supposedly about po’ folks struggling to make ends meet in a harsh environment, but in reality being paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for “roughing it,” absolutely terminated my interest in watching another episode, though it had been for several yrs one of my favorites.

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January 13, 2022 - 5:08 pm
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steve004 said

The fact that Hollywood rarely equals reality is not surprising.  In fact, in the last many years, the advent of, “reality” television shows is a great example of how focused Hollywood is on unreality.    

Aren’t movies and TV shows mean’t to be an escape from reality? Even “reality shows” are absurdly so unreal it hard to fathom that anyone would actual believe it. “Man Tracker” was totally ridiculous. How can anyone run off into thick forests being chased by a man on a horse and trying not to be caught all the while both of them are being being filmed by cameramen with sound recording equipment? I quit watching The History Channel long ago because of the nonsense of most of it’s programming. I often watch movies that are ridiculously unrealistic for the entertainment value and don’t get upset about historical inaccuracies unless it is mean’t to be true and historically accurate. I watched a movie last night called “Gangster Squad” about the Los Angeles Police Dept. in the 1940’s. I really enjoyed seeing the old cars, especially the big Packard Custom  and the guns like 1897 Riots but the story and shooting scenes were beyond belief . That’s Hollywood.

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January 13, 2022 - 7:09 pm
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Dave K. said    Aren’t movies and TV shows mean’t to be an escape from reality? 

To a degree, but there is now a bonanza of historical dramas (although most made in Europe) based reasonably closely on important historical figures & events, that provide significant opportunities for learning real history, as well as escapism.  Such as the BBC’s recent history of the War of the Roses, “The White Queen,” which escaped the BBC’s racial quota (else I wouldn’t have watched it) by being filmed in Belgium, where PC isn’t so strictly enforced.  “Reasonably closely,” doesn’t mean factually true in every detail, but free of outrageous historical absurdities thrown in gratuitously for the sake of stupid theatrical effects, or PC, such as the scene that recently ended my viewing of the 2010 Robin Hood.  It was of course instantly obvious that great liberties were being taken with the traditional legend, but the production was so well done that I continued watching up to the point that an important baron was shown being publicly cremated–an act of heresy & sacrilege prohibited in Christian Europe at the time, & totally irrelevant to the plot as well. 

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January 13, 2022 - 8:53 pm
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Gratuitous violence and the unending use of profane language really is annoying. Every other word out of the mouths of the actors is F or mofo etc.. It is totally unecessary and I have often turned off what otherwise might be a good show. When I see a beautiful woman or a child prefixing every word with the “f bomb” it really irks me and I have been known to turn the air blue of occasion when frustrated or angry.

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