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Octagon barreled short rifle with sling ring on gunbroker
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June 23, 2021 - 2:07 am
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Not much for condition but a rare piece:

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/903297983

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June 23, 2021 - 2:15 pm
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Are you certain that barrel hasn’t been cut down?

Sincerely,

Maverick

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June 23, 2021 - 2:31 pm
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Maverick said
Are you certain that barrel hasn’t been cut down?

Sincerely,

Maverick  

It does not appear to be a cut down barrel.  The front sight is correctly located, as is the magazine tube hanger ring.  Somebody used and carried that old gun a lot in its past.

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June 23, 2021 - 4:16 pm
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There are a couple things that you can see in the photos that would need to be confirmed.  The barrel doesnt seem to have much of a taper at the muzzle, would want to have the dimensions across the flats, that would definitely confirm whether it has been shortened or not.  In photo 15 there are some odd marks in the top barrel flats on either side of the front sight that cant figure out the cause.  In photo 18, the muzzle face has concentric rings on the muzzle flat, the champfer is a bit deeper than would be expected maybe, and the edges at the octagon points are a bit rounded at the muzzle, whereas the outside barrel bevel at the flats should be directional bevels and squared, not rounded.  The pic below is of 2 20″ short rifle muzzles, the left is in the 599k SN range and the other much later in the 858K range. 

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You can see a lot of the screws have been tinkered and the buttstock corners at the tang are broken, gives you kind of an idea of disassembly or curiosity by folks.  The receiver looks like it could have been paired with the rest of the rifle for a long time, and we know that rifles with a saddle ring can exist from the factory, is this one of them?  Neat old gun, but those those are the things Id be vetting or would want to firm up before I made  the call.  Would make a good truck gun if it shoots good. 

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June 23, 2021 - 4:17 pm
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It appears to have the long forearm wood and rear sight dovetail accordingly placed for the long wood.   RDB

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June 23, 2021 - 4:49 pm
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rogertherelic said
It appears to have the long forearm wood and rear sight dovetail accordingly placed for the long wood.   RDB  

Given this rifle is out of the, “letterable” range, many things could have happened in its long (and active) history.  Given how rarely rifles were ordered with sling rings, one probable scenario is that this piece started out as a saddle ring carbine that was rebarreled and the carbine wood was switched out with rifle wood.  The barrel may have been shortened.  

Roger’s point on the long forearm wood is noted.  If I recall, short rifles found with longer forearm wood were generally earlier manufactured rifles?

I typically learn a lot when I post a topic.  Well… a little less so when a Marlin, Bullard or Whitney-Kennedy is involved – but that’s understandable  😉  

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June 23, 2021 - 5:12 pm
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rogertherelic said
It appears to have the long forearm wood and rear sight dovetail accordingly placed for the long wood.   RDB  

The seller states that it has the shorter forend stock and rear sight closer to the frame ring ?

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June 23, 2021 - 6:40 pm
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I stand corrected.  Correct short wood. Embarassed RDB

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June 23, 2021 - 6:53 pm
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Bert H. said

The seller states that it has the shorter forend stock and rear sight closer to the frame ring ?  

Your right , he does mention the shorter forend.  I didnt read the description.  Either way, there are still some things going on at the muzzle end that dont quite look right.  Maybe someone trued the muzzle up a bit as Ive seen before, the rifle has had some hard use.      

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June 23, 2021 - 8:50 pm
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The rifle “appears” correct to me. And, the very rough wood matches the condition of the metal of the rifle as well. Just looks like a honest old gun that really served it’s owner well.

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June 24, 2021 - 2:00 am
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That poor ol girl has had a rough life! Interesting rifle though …… and great for Chris’ rack in the back window of his ranch truck. 

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June 24, 2021 - 2:33 am
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Looks about right to me, I have a very similar rifle (534866) in somewhat better condition. Magazine hanger looks a bit odd on both rifles. (Second from right) You may have seen this one in San Marcos, Chris. Too late to dig it out for better picks. 

 

Mike

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June 24, 2021 - 2:45 am
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pdog72 said
That poor ol girl has had a rough life! Interesting rifle though …… and great for Chris’ rack in the back window of his ranch truck.   

You could probably throw it anywhere in/on that old truck and it wouldnt hurt it much.   Would match the truck though, some of the dents have dents. 

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June 24, 2021 - 4:29 pm
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It sounds like we’re thinking this rifle is a legitimate short rifle.  We haven’t mentioned the seller’s statement about the caliber marking moved to the side because of the rear sight placement.  Presumably this helps substantiate this is a short rifle barrel.  One of the reasons I would tend to conclude this is a legitimate short rifle is the condition of the rifle.  I don’t think anyone would go to an expert level of modification for a rifle in such poor condition.

I find the sling ring the most appealing aspect of the piece.

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June 24, 2021 - 5:35 pm
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Steve,

The statement about the caliber marking position is not accurate.  In the year 1907, Winchester moved the caliber marking to the left (10 o’clock) position on the barrel for all models and variations (e.g. Model 1873, Single Shot, 1886, 1890, 1892, 1894, etc.), and it was done regardless of the barrel length or sight placement. 

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