Found this new-in-box pre-war (1938 manufacture date) model 70 in 300 Magnum at a local gun store today. Dealer is asking $4,000 but is willing to take $3,800 for it. Rifle is brand new and unfired and includes the original box that has the matching serial number 22354 written on the box (very lightly in pencil but is there)–a literal time-capsule. Box has the original brown wrap packing material, pamphlets, warranty card, etc. still in the box. Wanted to post photos on the forum and ask for opinions before going back to try to work out a deal tomorrow. Hoping Lou and Bo will chime in and advise regarding price, etc.
Thanks,
Don
Bert H. said
Don,That is another Fake box. Winchester did not print Spanish text on box labels. Undoubtedly this is another one of the fakes created by SDOG.
Bert
Wow Bert!! That guy is a real P.O.S. This one traveled all the way to Portland, OR. Instances as this are exactly why I waited to post on the forum before working out any kind of deal. Now this makes me suspicious about the whole package. What are your opinions of the rifle? Kinda makes me paranoid now and maybe I should just forget that I ever saw it and move on. Holding the rifle in hand looked good and legit, but I am a novice when it comes to model 70’s and can do quite a bit of damage to myself if not careful. I thought I struck gold, but maybe just fool’s gold. What would you do in this instance? Definitely appreciate the feedback.
Don
November 5, 2014

Hi Don-
I’ll have to think about this one… Whenever these show up the first reaction should be “No way!!!”. At least that’s MY first reaction…
Model 70 boxes and labels are very hard to sort out, since so many surviving (empty) original boxes have been “repurposed” to create “NIB” Model 70s. Not even counting the “repro” boxes. Another one appeared on GI today that was a gun sold recently at auction and has now acquired it’s “original box”… My “survey” of this topic has more “noise” than “pattern” to it…
Pending further consideration, here are three photos of a contemporary Model 70. box.. These images are from another WACA member, not my gun, and believed to be legit. I know that the first variations of Model 70 instruction manuals were printed in English-Spanish or English-Spanish-Portuguese…
Good Luck!!!
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
Louis Luttrell said
Hi Don-I’ll have to think about this one… Whenever these show up the first reaction should be “No way!!!”. At least that’s MY first reaction…
Model 70 boxes and labels are very hard to sort out, since so many surviving (empty) original boxes have been “repurposed” to create “NIB” Model 70s. Not even counting the “repro” boxes. Another one appeared on GI today that was a gun sold recently at auction and has now acquired it’s “original box”… My “survey” of this topic has more “noise” than “pattern” to it…
Pending further consideration, here are three photos of a contemporary Model 70. box.. These images are from another WACA member, not my gun, and believed to be legit. I know that the first variations of Model 70 instruction manuals were printed in English-Spanish or English-Spanish-Portuguese…
Good Luck!!!
Lou
Hmmm…now I really don’t know what to think or do…
November 5, 2014

Don-
Not that it proves anything, but this rifle sold via RIA in 2017 (with box)… Not new to the survey…
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
Yep–that’s the gun Lou! Great detective work–didn’t even think to Google the serial number. RIA’s description (below) points out the reproduction box, along with the polished and re-numbered bolt to the gun, some re-finishing to the trigger guard, reoiled stock…Waaaay too many red flags for me!! I agree with Bert–another one of “Selling Dad’s Old Guns” fraudulent guns. Dabbing into model 70’s is proving to be a dangerous endeavor for me. The old saying, “if it’s too good to be true…” comes to mind. You guys just saved me a whole lot of disappointment and $$$$. Thank God for this forum and all of you guys!!
Don
Pre-World War II Winchester Model 70 Bolt Action Rifle in .300 H&H Magnum with Box
Manufactured in 1939. Hooded ramp front and elevation adjustable rear sights, standard Winchester markings including the factory oval proof on the barrel and receiver, early receiver correctly tapped for sight/scope mounting, pre-war safety, polished bolt re-numbered to gun, sling swivels and checkered pistol grip stock with checkered steel buttplate. The reproduction Winchester factory style box is re-numbered to the gun. Comes with a Model 70 brochure.
Very fine. The barrel and receiver retain 95% plus of the original blue showing some minor high edge wear, limited minor scratches and some thinning to a brown on the bolt handle. The trigger guard is refinished with most remaining. The very fine reoiled stock shows the slightest handling marks and crisp checkering overall. Mechanically excellent. The box is fine with most of the labels remaining and a faded end label.
November 5, 2014

Hi Don-
It was in the survey… I didn’t “Google” it…
I kind of like the gun… I’d pay the $1800 for it that it brought on RIA in 2017… It’s either a nice restoration or an original that’s been “touched up”… The box is sketchy, but I think the label text is period accurate… Maybe I’m wrong…
FWIW… I don’t believe auction house descriptions (good or bad) any more that I believe gun seller’s “stories”… Make up your own mind…
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
Once again and all together: The putatively pristine pre-war Model 70 woods is deep and dark and full of Tigers.
Here’s my take on that subject:
1. It is a very expensive place in which to be cured of your innocence.
2. There are still lots of sound, field-used, early post-war examples that clean up beautifully for those of us who want one.
3. For those trying to resist the siren call of an NIB specimen miraculously preserved in Grandpa’s attic — if our Maximum Guru Luttrell himself says he can’t be sure and it’s on you, run away and save your wool for a future shearing.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
Extremely well said, Zebulon!
I tend to shy away from guns that are too “pristine” — signs of use are signs of authenticity as far as I’m concerned. And as far as rifles that have been somehow, against all the odds, miraculously preserved in their original boxes for the better part of a century, I just walk away, since virtually no one chose to spend all their hard earned brass to buy a Winchester only to squirrel it away and never use it. That just defies common sense.
BRP
Blue Ridge Parson, You make a very good point. If you bought a Winchester in times gone past you were going to use it. That is why when you find a new in the box gun it is almost like finding a hens tooth. To my dismay most of the new in the box guns found for sell Today, are not as advertised. They are out there, and if one appears, and it is correct. It of course will bring a large premium.
Very well said fellas!! Was sure clouded by the “wow factor” on this one before running it across the experts on this forum and common sense kicking in. Been studying Roger Rule’s book and he has a number of legit NIB specimens pictured in it which I’m sure fed the fever a bit. Thought maybe I found one he had missed, but certainly not so! Learned a valuable lesson without losing my shirt!!
Don
November 7, 2015

Most of us don’t participate but there is certainly a market for “fantasy” guns and as Donald pointed out RIA made a good faith effort to point out the discrepancies eight years ago. Apparently it is a lucrative market, not sure why they try to pass them off as original unless they are looking for a rich, ignorant sucker. OTOH that works every now and then. I don’t play in that ballpark but must admit it provides good entertainment.
Mike
Like a Circus Maximus.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
Bert H. said
Don,That is another Fake box. Winchester did not print Spanish text on box labels. Undoubtedly this is another one of the fakes created by SDOG.
Bert
Falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus. A legal doctrine that permits the finder of fact (the jury or, in a bench trial, the judge) to disregard the entire testimony of a witness who has lied about a material fact. It is based on the presumption that one who lies about one thing is likely to lie about other things. Particularly if he has lied under oath.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
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