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New guy here but not new to firearm collecting. I guess accumulating is a more accurate term because I do not specialize in any particular type or manufacturer. I just buy anything that I like and can afford. My latest acquisition is a M94 Winchester 30-30. It’s not my first- I do own one my Dad bought new in 1974 that has been lovingly fired and maintained since then. This one is a little older- Serial# 3516XXX and it was represented as NIB. It has all of the original paperwork including a cash register receipt from October of 1971- $69.90 was apparently the original purchase price. I’ve got a couple of questions for the more experienced Winchester collectors out there if you would be so kind as to share your knowledge.
I can see nothing that dispels the NIB designation. A few light handling marks but nothing that would indicate that it has been fired. Is there any tell or sign to look for that can indicate that it has been fired?
If it is determined to be NIB is there a collectors market for such? It’s obviously not rare, but there can’t be millions out there that are in NIB condition.
Is there a big difference out there between NIB and LNIB conditions? I’m not much of a “safe queen” type of guy. I lovingly maintain all of my firearms but I do enjoy casting bullets, reloading and shooting much more than just looking at them.
And finally the obligatory- What is it worth? I did pay more than $69.90 for it
Thanks in advance for any guidance that you can give me.
Andy
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Hello Andy,
The serial number confirms the 1971 production date. In regards to the question about it being fired, all Winchester firearms have been fired, and in the case of rifles, they have been fired at least 6-8 times. The first firing was a 130% proof load, and upon passing inspection following that firing, the superposed “WP” in oval Definitive Proof mark was hand stamped on the barrel and receiver frame ring. After that event, the rifle was then fired several times with standard loads to set the sights. It was then cleaned and sent to the warehouse to be recorded in the records.
For a Post 1963 production Model 94, there really is little (if any) difference between NIB and LNIB. There is always a market for NIB Winchesters, but in this case, it is somewhat muted by the fact it is a Post-63 production Model 94. I very seldom pay much attention to what the Post-63 production Winchesters sell for these days, but I suspect that a NIB/LNIB Model 94 would sell for at least $500 – $600, and could a few hundred higher in an auction.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Hello-
Question about the proofing procedure:
I thought the barrel proof mark was stamped after only the barrel passed a firing with a very heavy load. Then after the barrel was fitted to the receiver, another test firing was done, this time with a lighter load than the barrel testing load, and with the passing of this test the receiver was stamped. In other words,I thought the two proof marks were stamped at different times at different stages of the process.
Thanks,
Charles
Both proof marks, on the barrel and on the receiver, were stamped at the same time and with the same die when the gun was test fired at final inspection.
War Eagle said
Hello-Question about the proofing procedure:
I thought the barrel proof mark was stamped after only the barrel passed a firing with a very heavy load. Then after the barrel was fitted to the receiver, another test firing was done, this time with a lighter load than the barrel testing load, and with the passing of this test the receiver was stamped. In other words,I thought the two proof marks were stamped at different times at different stages of the process.
Thanks,
Charles
Charles,
What you are describing is the Violent Proof (VP in an oval, found stamped on the bottom for the barrel) firing. It was a 200% proof load after the barrel was “rough bored”, with the barrel locked to a bench.
The “WP” Winchester Definitive proof was a 130% load after the firearm was fully assembled.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Nearly two years late in reading this, but I wanted to express thanks for explaining the meaning of VP and WP proof marks and the manufacturing process behind them. I’m still learning, which is why I’m on page 73 of this forum (as of this writing) to find what I can regarding 1873, 1892, and 1894 models.
Dorsey
I can assist you with any Model 1894/94 questions. 2bit (Michael) can assist you with any Model 1892/92 questions, and 1873man (Bob) can assist you with any Model 1873 questions. Any other models, go to the Research Survey forum and peruse the list of people surveying the various models.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
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