Avatar

Please consider registering
guest

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —






— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters




sp_Feed Topic RSS sp_Print sp_TopicIcon
Need help shooting an original 1873 Winchester in 22 Short
June 30, 2019
4:48 pm
Avatar
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 6
Member Since:
June 30, 2019
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Hello,

I just purchased an original Winchester 1873 third model in 22 short. The gun has been inspected and test fired by a gunsmith. Yesterday I took it to the range to shoot and had some trouble. Hoping I can get some advice!

Is my loading procedure correct?  I remove the tubular magazine, pull the follower back and drop in rounds, lead nose first. When I've filled the magazine, I press the black clip into the tube opening to prevent the rounds from falling out.  See picture below.

Image Enlarger

I can chamber and extract a single round fine, but no other rounds advance in the magazine and cannot be seen in the chamber.  When I pull the magazine out, I notice the black clip has been pushed forward, see below.

Image Enlarger

I've noticed the tension spring in the magazine is stiff or bent, causing the follower to jam when you try to load the magazine. I'm not sure if this is impacting the ability for the bullets to advance in the chamber when the action is cycled.  Does anyone know where I might purchase a replacement spring? See photo below.

Image Enlarger

I'm using CCI CB 22 short 710fps 29gr.

Thanks in advance!

June 30, 2019
5:14 pm
Avatar
Wisconsin
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 3935
Member Since:
May 2, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

The spring normally does that when compressed. Without the tube to contain the spring it would come flying out sideways. Load the tube with shells and slide the black spring back and it should hold the shells in. If you slide the spring forward they should all come out. This is what happens when you slide the inner tube into the magazine tube on the gun, it pushes the black spring forward letting the shell flow back into the elevator.

When you remove the inner tube with shells still in it does the shells stay in it? they should all slide out and remain loose in the gun. If the shells remain in the inner tube then there is a problem with the spring or the tube itself.

Bob

WACA Life Member---
NRA Life Member----
Cody Firearms member since 1991

73_86cutaway.jpg

Email: bob.1873man@gmail.com

June 30, 2019
5:33 pm
Avatar
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 6
Member Since:
June 30, 2019
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

The shells stay in the inner tube when the loaded magazine is removed. I have to shake the magazine for them to drop out.  I think the problem is a small piece of metal is fouling on the rim of the bullets:

Image Enlarger

Not sure why the metal is worn this way, almost like someone filed it poorly.

June 30, 2019
7:15 pm
Avatar
Wisconsin
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 3935
Member Since:
May 2, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Go in through the open end with a small fine round file like one for sharpening a chainsaw and remove the burr.

Bob

WACA Life Member---
NRA Life Member----
Cody Firearms member since 1991

73_86cutaway.jpg

Email: bob.1873man@gmail.com

June 30, 2019
7:19 pm
Avatar
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 6
Member Since:
June 30, 2019
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Yep, going to try that.  I also think the black spring clip is not disengaging far enough BACK UP the the magazine when the magazine is fully pressed into the chamber.  In the photo above, where I circled the metal fragment that needs to be filed, I'm noticing the black clip is still slightly engaged inside this opening, which is causing the bullets to remain in the magazine instead of flowing into the chamber.  I'm not sure if the clip is warped or just needs some thick oil.  Thoughts?

June 30, 2019
9:35 pm
Avatar
Wisconsin
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 3935
Member Since:
May 2, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

The slot maybe worn back too far which allows the spring to remain in the inner diameter blocking the shells.

Bob

WACA Life Member---
NRA Life Member----
Cody Firearms member since 1991

73_86cutaway.jpg

Email: bob.1873man@gmail.com

July 1, 2019
1:10 am
Avatar
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1352
Member Since:
December 31, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

These rifles are a big PITA. Sometimes they work and sometimes not. When mine works it is a real fun gun to shoot. Sounds like a pellet gun and hits just about as hard. I have had rounds bounce of beer bottles at the dump. Mine is in real nice condition. Totally original. I had trouble with it when I bought it, but Turnbull had it shipped back to him and his gunsmiths fixed it and sent it back. All at no charge to me. It's a bit heavy for a 22, so I don't shoot it often.  Big Larry

July 7, 2019
10:24 pm
Avatar
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 6
Member Since:
June 30, 2019
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

As an update, over the holiday I was able to play with the 22 short a bit. I was able to get the magazine to feed properly by aggressively lubing and cleaning the magazine tube. I still think the magazine needs to be replaced. Does anyone know how to find replacement parts?

I ran into another issue: the 22 short rounds are double-feeding into the elevator. After reading this post (https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-rifles/1890-22-long-feed-issue/#p83055), I am assuming this rifle has been converted to shoot 22 long (not LR), as the LR ammo I tried was slightly too long to feed into the elevator.  Since I've invested in a lot of 22 short ammo, I'd like to convert this back to 22 short.  Does anyone know how to do this without damaging the gun?  The receiver plate screws are immovable.

July 7, 2019
11:01 pm
Avatar
Wisconsin
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 3935
Member Since:
May 2, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

On the right side of the elevator is the spring that catches the shells as they come from the loading tube. That elevator is drilled and tapped so you can change it from shorts to longs as long as its not been messed with. To do that you have to remove the elevator from the gun. I've always removed the sideplates to help with disassembly. If you can't get the sideplates off then you might be able to do it but you would have to remove the stock and lower tang. To get the elevator out you have to remove the elevator lifter that is held in by the lever screw. With the toggles in place you can't remove the lever entirely but you can get it loose enough to maybe get the lifter arm out but if the lever becomes disconnected from the toggles you may not get it together again without removing the sideplates. I would have to experiment on a old receiver to see if it can be done.

Bob

WACA Life Member---
NRA Life Member----
Cody Firearms member since 1991

73_86cutaway.jpg

Email: bob.1873man@gmail.com

July 7, 2019
11:38 pm
Avatar
Wisconsin
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 3935
Member Since:
May 2, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I tried it and it can be done and the lever will come out if the bolt is back. The toggles will stay in place and you will have to slide the lever back in the toggle slot when going together. You just have to remember in what order it came apart and where everything fits.

Bob

WACA Life Member---
NRA Life Member----
Cody Firearms member since 1991

73_86cutaway.jpg

Email: bob.1873man@gmail.com

July 8, 2019
3:38 pm
Avatar
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 6
Member Since:
June 30, 2019
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Thanks Bob, I will give this a try and report back (might be a few days)

July 14, 2019
6:04 pm
Avatar
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 6
Member Since:
June 30, 2019
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I ended up taking the receiver plates off to adjust the elevator screw. As I have never disassembled one of these before, I found this YouTube video by user Targetpopper on disassembling an 1873 very helpful

To close the loop and possibly help someone else out that finds their way to this forum, I've taken some images and notes below.

Here are the major parts involved after disassembly:

Image Enlarger

Everything you need to understand about disassembling an 1873 is contained in that YouTube video above.  I found that careful attention was needed to remember the orientation of the tension springs, as one of them latches into elevator lifter arm, while the other is a straight piece. Everything else about disassembly of these parts was very simple and straightforward.

After removing the lever, the elevator lifter arm can be pulled out of the elevator, and the elevator itself drops out the bottom.

The elevator has an adjuster on the side to set the 22 long or 22 short position. My gun was in the 22 Long position:

Image Enlarger

To make sure this was 22 Long, I dropped in a 22 LR and noticed it was too long:

IMG-0890.jpgImage Enlarger

I then confirmed 22 short was double feeding (which is the original problem I am trying to solve):

Image Enlarger

Here are the adjustment slot positions (notice all the gunk in the 22 short position):

Image Enlarger

After cleaning the parts, I adjusted to the 22 short position:

Image Enlarger

And we have a perfect fit:

Image Enlarger

Putting everything back together was also straightforward and the 22 short rounds chamber perfectly now.

I also did purchase a modern replacement tubular magazine, as previously discussed, it was not feeding all the rounds properly.

Thanks everyone!

July 16, 2019
2:53 am
Avatar
Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 2062
Member Since:
November 7, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Good job, great pics. Glad it worked out for you. 

 

Mike

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
Forum Timezone: UTC 0

Most Users Ever Online: 628

Currently Online:
39 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)


Forum Stats:

Groups: 1

Forums: 16

Topics: 6375

Posts: 51133


Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 851

Members: 8540

Moderators: 4

Admins: 3


Top Posters:

1873man: 3935

twobit: 2410

TXGunNut: 2062

Maverick: 1416

Big Larry: 1352

JWA: 1236

Wincacher: 1180

Brad Dunbar: 1055

clarence: 936

1892takedown: 838

Navigation