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I acquired a 1886 45-70 made in 1889 per Cody. The rifle had at one point been re-blued and whoever did it apparently knew how. The magazine tube however had retina of a 1889 vintage gun and even though installed correctly, jumps completely out of the receiver under recoils. The end cap extrusion that fits the barrel notch is defeated somehow and the thing jumps out overtime rendering my model 86 a single shot. I suspect the wrong diameter tube is installed and was canibalized from another gun. If anyone had experienced this issue and successfully cured it I’d like to hear from you or anyone having information as to who, when, how I can get it back in service.
Thanks in advance!
Magazine tubes in Model 1886’s are notoriously difficult to remove. You didn’t give any information about the rifle itself but all calibers had the same diameter magazine tube so a substitution from a different model is unlikely. Also, since most barrels were 26″ long a substitute magazine tube from another model is also unlikely. A replica tube might be of smaller diameter. There should be retaining pin in the magazine tube hanger that should fit tightly. Also, there should be no play in the magazine tube hanger itself. The magazine tube end plug should have a flange that fits nicely into the groove at the bottom of the barrel. If all these conditions are met, what you describe can’t happen.
If the hanger is tight and the tube plug flange fits snugly in the barrel slot, you might start by checking the outside diameter of the tube: it should be 47/64″.
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
I think you have hit on my problem. My magazine tube is loose in the hanger and because of that fact, the retaining pin can’t do its job. The flange on my end plug fits the groove in the barrel correctly but when the mag tube flexes its disengages. I’m going to mic the tube for correct diameter also the magazine tube hanger to make sure its correct.
Thanks for your help and advice
The inside diameter of the tube hanger should be right at 3/4″.
Sounds like you’re on the right track now. Those tubes fit so tightly that I’ve devised a custom tool for removal that involves a piece of copper pipe, an oak dowel and a nail punch for extricating the tube without damaging the muzzle screw hole opening.
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
I’m struggling to remove the mag tube on an 1886 (made in 1894). The hanger pin came out and indicates that there may be a little corrosion hidden inside the hanger. I have tried tapping a brass punch sideways through the end cap screw hole, but I’m concerned that if I hit it any harder, I’ll damage the hole and there is no sign of movement yet. I have tried heat gun and a very brief hit with a propane torch, and I have tried PB blaster. No movement.
I fashioned a “puller” with a 1/2″ threaded rod and a screw through the end cap hole. Also no motion before I stopped in fear of damaging the screw hole. I noticed your post above about making a tool with copper pipe and dowel – I’d appreciate some guidance on how to make one and use it.
Have you loosened the forearm cap? it can pinch the tube when installed also the tube can be rusted to the forearm wood if the gun got wet since they didn’t blue the tube all the way under the wood. I always make sure the wood slips on the tube before trying to remove it. I have clamped the end of the tube in a vise with a properly fit dowel made out of steel or aluminum inside the tube and use lead pads in the vise. The lead pads will form to the tube when tightened. Since the tube is made from rolled flat metal it can split the soldered seam if you get carried away twisting on it. When it does come loose, use oil on the tube to keep from scratching the finish as it goes through the mag tube band.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
I’m not familiar with PB Blaster, have always used Kroil. If soaking in penetrating oil didn’t loosen the hanger, then try the dowel trick. Take a 1″+ length of 5/8″copper pipe and split it lengthwise so it can contract. 1 cut only, don’t cut into 2 hemispheres. Insert a 6″+ length of dowel so one end is flush and drill a hole the same diameter as that of the magazine tube end cap screw hole through the solid side of the copper tube. Insert the copper clad dowel into the magazine tube and align the holes. Then insert an appropriate sized nail punch and twist sideways back and forth until the tube starts to rotate. (Sometimes a 5/8″ piece of copper tubing fits in the magazine tube just right, or with just a little bit of sanding on the copper pipe.)
Hope this helps.
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
I’ll give the copper/dowel trick a try. I’ve been cautious about twisting the mag tube because it looks like it’s putting a lot of stress on the hanger dovetail. I am pretty sure that it’s loose in the forearm – the cap is loose and the mag tube rotates a few degrees. I’m very sure that the hanger is the problem. If I screw this up and it breaks at the dovetail, does it usually damage the hanger or the barrel?
The hanger dovetail requires a rotation to fit – is it stronger when the tube is rotated clockwise or anticlockwise? My intuition is that it makes no difference, but maybe there’s an advantage one way or the other?
So here’s the new and improved plan – combine the external lead clamp and the internal dowel idea. 3D print a mag tube tool and see what happens.
Doug,
I can see the image if I click on it and it opens in a separate windows.
The hanger is put in when the mag tube is removed and is twisted in by putting in place rotated 90 degrees rotated. Then rotate it to line up with the barrel. It can be rotated either way. If it comes loose you can tighten it up by peening the dovetail down then put it in. Tighten it a little and try it in small steps because its easier to tighten then to try to open the dovetail.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
When I click on the attachment it opens a blank window. I then click on this and it opens the picture.
Click on the blank picture a second time so it opens in a separate window.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
In the end I didn’t need the tommy bar holes that I designed into the jig – I just hammered it into the end of the mag tube, clamped it to the tube and then tapped it with a hammer in the other direction. Slid out about 1/8″ per tap with some oil on the mag tube. Much easier than I expected. Then I undid the clamp and knocked the jig loose with a solid aluminum rod. If I did this again I’d probably loosen up the fit a little. It’s ASA plastic with 50% infill, so reasonably compliant, but I probably did not need to make it an interference fit to the inside of the mag tube.
The interference fit could of split the solder joint.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Yeah – didn’t notice that until you pointed it out. It looks like it’s unzipped the solder about 3/4″ along the tube. Frustrating.
Sometimes the best way to clean an old Winchester is with a gun rag from the outside only. Judging from the pictures less would have been better T/R.
I wish it were so. This one’s kinda on the verge of being a wall-hanger, but I’d like to shoot it a little bit before it retires.
There’s a crack in the forearm that I want to repair, and it needed to come off so that I can get behind the crack with some glue and not mar the original finish. It’s going to be tricky to get glue into the crack without getting it all over the outer finish. The usual clean up for epoxy (acetone) will strip the finish, so I have to find a way to get the crack glued without squeeze out. I’m mulling mixing some black die with water soluble Titebond-3 or something that I can clean with water. Never tried that before though. Maybe I’ll mix a batch just to check whether it sets up OK with the die in it.
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