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MY Model 70 in .300 HH
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LI NY
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February 18, 2024 - 9:18 pm
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Greetings! Since I am stuck home recovering from surgery, I figured I could use some opinions on one of my favorites. SN236727, from 1952 with a vintage Balvar 2.5-8x scope. Other then the added recoil pad, how’s it lookin.

THX

Steve GIMG_0601.jpegImage EnlargerIMG_0607.jpegImage EnlargerIMG_0609.jpegImage EnlargerIMG_0608.jpegImage EnlargerIMG_0606.jpegImage EnlargerIMG_0605.jpegImage EnlargerIMG_0602.jpegImage EnlargerIMG_0603.jpegImage EnlargerIMG_0604.jpegImage Enlarger

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February 18, 2024 - 10:26 pm
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Steve,

It looks very nice… the only thing I would change is the empty rear sight dovetail.  Lyman makes filler pieces that will make it look nicer.

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Bert

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February 18, 2024 - 10:35 pm
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Steven Gabrielli said Other then the added recoil pad, how’s it lookin.

Can’t restore the handsome steel plate, but a repro factory pad would be an easy enhancement.  Otherwise, looks great.

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February 18, 2024 - 10:56 pm
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Bert H. said
Steve,

It looks very nice… the only thing I would change is the empty rear sight dovetail.  Lyman makes filler pieces that will make it look nicer.

Lyman 12S Slot Blank | 4.3 Star Rating Free Shipping over $49! (opticsplanet.com)

Bert

  

That’s nice to know.  Wish someone would stamp the Lyman on them.

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February 19, 2024 - 4:11 pm
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Hi Steven-

Nice rifle!!! Laugh  I also like the B&L Balvar 8 scope.

If it’s of interest… The early Monte Carlo comb Model 70s had a Marbles 69 (low height) folding rear sight and a Win 103C/E silver (tinned) bead front sight that was 0.360″ tall.  The ubiquitous Lyman 16B folding sight didn’t replace the Marbles until around 1954.  The photo shows the Marbles 69 as used with MC stocks on Standard barrels (left) and Featherweight (right) from about 1952-1953.

Marbles-69.jpegImage Enlarger

The Lyman 12S slot blanks that the factory installed were flat across the top, not rounded off like the current production 12S blanks.  The ones Winchester used were not stamped “Lyman” on top.  Like the next photo of a pair of M70 National Match rifles from 1955 and 1957.

1950s-Lyman-12S-blanks.jpegImage Enlarger

Best,

Lou

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February 19, 2024 - 4:27 pm
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Thanks for the info Louis. I”ll keep an eye out for an original rear folding sight, or blank. I’ll stick a repro blank in like Bert suggested.

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February 19, 2024 - 5:20 pm
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clarence said

Steven Gabrielli said Other then the added recoil pad, how’s it lookin.

Can’t restore the handsome steel plate, but a repro factory pad would be an easy enhancement.  Otherwise, looks great.

  

I like it! As Clarence mentioned a new red reproduction pad would not look out of place on this rifle and would certainly make it more comfortable to shoot. Dovetail fillers can be fitted to match the barrel contours to give the gun a more finished look. Best wishes on a speedy recovery and rehab!

 

 

Mike

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February 19, 2024 - 6:08 pm
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Chuck said

Bert H. said

Steve,

It looks very nice… the only thing I would change is the empty rear sight dovetail.  Lyman makes filler pieces that will make it look nicer.

Lyman 12S Slot Blank | 4.3 Star Rating Free Shipping over $49! (opticsplanet.com)

Bert

  

That’s nice to know.  Wish someone would stamp the Lyman on them.

  

Why? Winchester used unmarked Lyman slot fillers for decades.  For the octagon barrel rifles, the flat slot fillers that Lou mentioned (and pictured) are much preferred.  For the round barrels and the barrels with the round sight boss, the current Lyman No. 12S actually fits up and looks very nice.

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February 19, 2024 - 8:05 pm
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The Lyman marked ones are rare and worth a lot more.  Of course they are the flat type.

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February 19, 2024 - 8:30 pm
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Here’s one of the Lyman “running deer” marked flat top dovetail blanks on a M70 Carbine.  Put there by me, not the factory… Laugh  Also pics of the envelope it came in.

Lyman-marked-12S.jpegImage Enlarger12S-Envelope-top-1.jpegImage Enlarger12S-Envelope-bottom-1.jpegImage Enlarger

The Lyman newer blanks, as well as some of the unmarked flat ones, have “LYMAN” stamped under the dovetail where it doesn’t show. Other flat top blanks I’ve seem are not marked at all, which has lead me to wonder whether Winchester outsourced all of them or made some in-house?

Same story with the Lyman 31W front sight supplied on M70 Standard Rifles and Carbines before 1941.  They are stamped “LYMAN” only on the bottom.  Later (post-war) Lyman 31 series sights were stamped LYMAN on the left side flat and have an application code stamped underneath (31CA was the sight recommended for the M70 in Lyman catalogs). 

I guess Winchester was somewhat loath to put other manufacturer’s names on their product where it would show, except of course for the Lyman 48WJS/WH and 57W receiver sights where the fact that it was a Lyman sight was a selling point.  Wink

Other makers of slot blanks, like Redfield, Marbles, and Stith, commonly stamped their names on top for all the World to see…

Lou 

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February 19, 2024 - 9:14 pm
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Louis Luttrell said
Here’s one of the Lyman “running deer” marked flat top dovetail blanks on a M70 Carbine.  Put there by me, not the factory… Laugh  Also pics of the envelope it came in.

Lyman-marked-12S.jpegImage Enlarger12S-Envelope-top-1.jpegImage Enlarger12S-Envelope-bottom-1.jpegImage Enlarger

Lou,  I’ve long since ceased to be surprised by your cornucopia of sights & accessories, but THIS floors me!  Esp because I love the “bounding buck” image, first used in 1885, though this visible “ring” actually misrepresents the sight picture when the aperture is as close to the eye as it should be, which is only the front sight against the target, as Lyman always explained in early catalogs.  All should note well the 3rd line on the back of the envelope; many on this site declare they know better.

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February 19, 2024 - 9:25 pm
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Clarence-

Just 40 years of picking up “junk” with the rationale that I might “need it someday”… Laugh

I do not know when Lyman changed from putting sights/blanks in paper envelopes to enclosing them in plastic bags.  Since this envelope mentions the M70 it was printed after 1936, and I’m interpreting the term “crotch” sight to mean the “sporting” type, e.g. Winchester 22-series.  Since these were phased out with the introduction of the MC stock circa 1952, I’m guessing this is a 1940s blank???  So it’s “old-ish” not “old”… Wink  

Plastic bag version (this being a 12SF for use in a front sight ramp)…

Lyman-12SF-Front-1.jpegImage Enlarger

Best,

Lou

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February 19, 2024 - 9:38 pm
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Lou needs to write a book.

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February 19, 2024 - 9:41 pm
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Steve-

It has been alleged that he’s “working on it”… But I suspect you’ll see the JWA/seewin definitive treatise on the M52 about the same time… LaughWinkLaugh  I’m going to sign up for a signed copy of THAT one!!!  Hint, hint, Jeff and Steve… Laugh

Lou

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February 19, 2024 - 10:17 pm
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I’d buy both.  I’m not a spring chicken any more.

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February 19, 2024 - 10:52 pm
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I do not know when Lyman changed from putting sights/blanks in paper envelopes to enclosing them in plastic bags.  Since this envelope mentions the M70 it was printed after 1936, and I’m interpreting the term “crotch” sight to mean the “sporting” type, e.g. Winchester 22-series.Louis Luttrell said

Once a common term for any “open” rear sight, & I think a more descriptive one.  ’40s, maybe into the ’50s, seems about right for the end of the paper envelopes.

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