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Would a Winchester Model 70 pre 64 Super Grade with the SUPER marking on the bottom of the barrel stamped AFTER polishing and bluing be a legit rifle? Assuming all other factors ( acid bluing, SG stock, SG floorplate and front sight) were correct.
The Super Grades I own are all made from 1955 on. Interestingly none are marked super under the barrel, but they all have a S on the bottom of the recoil lug. So, I have not seen one marked this way. There are some pictured in the Rule book that are marked SUPER, and they appear to be blued after the stamping was applied. I would be interested to see if others have and example of this.
If, as you say, everything else is correct, I sure wouldn’t fret over this small detail.
Bo Rich;
It has been my opinion (through reading, observing guns at shows and especially talking to knowledge folks) that all SG barrels were marked prior to polishing and bluing for identifying barrels that were to be used on Super Grades. Due to polishing some markings were completely removed but usually some marks could be observed. The fakes that I have observed with the markings AFTER bluing were the standard dip blued barrels not the acid bluing.
Your Pre 64, post 55 with no markings at all on the underside of the barrel is a new twist.
Clarence;
As you know these SG models are very expensive so all factor need be fully check out before laying down very many C notes.
Thank you both for your comments. Hoping for more.
A few thoughts…..
Prior to 1955 MOST (more on this later) M70 Super Grade rifles were not stamped SUPER under the barrel or with the backwards S on the recoil lug. Winchester did not have a need to do this prior to 1955 as all of the metal finishes on the Super Grade rifle were exactly the same as the metal finishes on the Standard Grade Rifle…..all pre-war M70’s had rust blued barrels and all post-war Transition and Type 111 guns until 1955 had Du-Lite blued barrels. Until 1955 the only difference between Super Grade and Standard rifles was the upgraded SG stock, SG stamped floor plate and Redfield full gold bead front sight, all other components were exactly the same. In 1955 Winchester again began to rust blue barrels and added jeweled bolt/action components that were intended for use on the SG’s. It is thought that the barrels were stamped SUPER and the recoil lug stamped with the backwards S at this time to facilitate easier identification of these parts.
It should be noted that there are a FEW instances prior to 1955 when SG’s with Special Order features were stamped with SUPER under the barrel. It is up to the individual to determine if these stamps are legitimate.
My understanding is that Winchester completed all markings/stamps and metal polishing prior to heat treating and bluing.
Exceptions are the Definitive Proof stamps and I believe Bert has indicated that there is a stamp on M71’s that was applied post bluing.
Sorry if I confused you there are markings on the under barrel. Just not SUPER! These examples include the .220 Swift, .270 Win, .270 Win. In a SGFW, .30’06, .300 H&H Mag, and the African .458. I would be interested to see if anyone has a 1955 or later Super Grade as marked. I would think that they would be out there. They are just elusive to me. Another point. I have been doing some research on the Stainless Steel rifles found in .270, as well as the .300 H&H Magnum. I have found with talking to other Collector that some have ST as a under barrel mark, and some don’t.
Online
Tedk said
A few thoughts…..My understanding is that Winchester completed all barrel markings/stamps and metal polishing prior to heat treating and bluing.
Exceptions are the Definitive Proof stamps and I believe Bert has indicated that there is a stamp on M71’s that was applied post bluing.
The serial numbers on the Model 71 receiver frames were apparently applied after the polishing and bluing processes. When examined under magnification, the visual appearance of the serial number shows raised edges, and greying (thinning) of the bluing surrounding the periphery of the numerals. I have accumulated more than (100) pictures of Model 71 serial number stamps, 2-digit through late 5-digit, and Winchester did not change the process.
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
November 5, 2014
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My experience has been that “most” Super Grade barrels made after 1955, the rust blued ones, are stamped “SUPER” underneath. I’d say a “majority”, whatever that means, of Super Grade receivers made after 1955, the ones that got jeweled action components, were stamped with the “backwards S” on the bottom of the recoil lug. My sense (not enough real data) is that the “S” stamp was not used as consistently as the “SUPER” stamp, but consider that conjecture.
It’s not even entirely clear to me why the receivers were “S” stamped… The basic receiver and its finish were the same between Standard and Super Grade rifles. The jeweled bolt components were added at the time the rifle was assembled… IIRC, Rule might have said something in his book about Winchester advertising Super Grades as “hand smoothed for easy operation” so maybe (???) there was some extra lapping done to the receiver action rails that they though was worthy of marking them “S”???? Anyone know?
An interesting thin about post-55 Super Grade barrels is that often the ONLY things stamped under the barrel are “SUPER” and the datum line used to mark the bottom of the barrel. Occasionally there’s the random inspector stamp, but like Standard grade barrels most were not dated or marked for caliber beginning sometime in 1956. I’ll attach photos of the under barrel markings on two of my Super Grade Featherweights that I believe are legit.
First is 30-06 SPRG S/N 416364. It is stamped only with “SUPER” and the “S”. The next is 270 WIN S/N 398707. This one has a ’55 barrel, so it is marked with caliber (“270”) as well as “55” and SUPER”… The recoil lug is not stamped…
Hope this helps,
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
I think I figured out this mystery. Most of my rifles were made in early 1955, and are marked with Caliber, and year on the under barrel. Super Grade or any Model 70 made after 1956 is seldom marked. Interestingly I have four of these marked with caliber, and year three from 1954, one from 1955. So, I can understand why Lou’s rifles are marked as they are.
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