Model 70 questions|Winchester Rifles|Forum|Winchester Collector

Hi George-

As a non-member, to post photos you either have to upload to a third party site and post the link here or just send them to me and I will post them for you.  My e-mail is [email protected] (max size of attachments to a single e-mail is 20 MB).

To answer the general question, Model 70 standard contour barrels (20″, 24″, 25″ or 26″) all had an integral forged front sight ramp until 1952, when the silver brazed ramps came along.  So a ’36 date barrel would have been made with an integral ramp.  Although Winchester cataloged a M70 GOV’T’06 Standard Rifle “without sights” in the later 1930s, all that meant was that they left off the sights.  The barrel ramp and rear sight dovetail were filled with blanks, but were still there.

For reference, here are some pics of a M70 close to yours (S/N 1099) with original sighting equipment).

Best,

Lou

I believe that is an original Winchester barrel that has been reduced in contour, in the process of which the integral sight ramp was turned off.  Then it was polished and reblued by the hot salts process. The barrel rollmarks visible in the photos have been “pulled” [softened at the edges] by a buffing wheel. I wouldn’t have been surprised if the barrel had measured a couple of inches shorter than 24″. 

Lightening standard weight Model 70 rifles was once a popular thing to do before development of the Featherweight style in 1951-2. Usually it involved turning down the barrel and shortening it to 20″ or 22″ from 24″, substituting an aluminum buttplate and floorplate, and removing wood from the stock. 

The piece in the rear slot is a blank made by Stith of San Antonio for the purpose of filling and protecting the female dovetail. Lyman, Marbles, etc make similar blanks for that purpose, too, as you know.

I can’t see enough of the stock to see what it might be. The pair of mortises in the barrel channel to accommodate the rear sight boss do not look as crisp as they were normally cut by the factory. They are also rounded or “washed” — perhaps in the course of refinishing the stock, or even altering it from an un-bossed barrel channel. 

Because the forearm appears to be so “squared off”, as if it were shaped on modern automated equipment, is there any possibility this is a late pre-64 Featherweight stock adapted to this barreled action? I cannot clearly see the tang of the action but I would presume it is a cloverleaf tang because of the design and position of the safety lever. It would be useful to see the inletting of the stock. I believe [unless Lou says otherwise] every Featherweight action had a rounded tang, not a cloverleaf, and would not have mortises for a sight boss or a hole in the forearm for a barrel tensioning screw. 

George, you must bear in mind that Lou is the Model 70 master and I’m only his slow-witted, occasional disciple,  grudgingly tolerated because I’m inoffensive and give him no trouble. You may take what he says to the bank. 

I failed to mention the bolt handle, from which the original blueing has been removed and either left in the white or plated. Because the action is an early one,  Lou can say whether the bolt would have had to be altered to clear the ocular bell of a scope. That would explain the change of finish. Or,  because bolt handles wear their blueing with use, perhaps the owner who ordered the gun refinished preferred it that way. 

While this is not a Model 70 in collectible condition, there are very few Model 70 rifles chambered in .30 Gov’t ’06 with “shot out” barrels. As long as the bore was not allowed to corrode or pit significantly,  I’d bet a whole box of Krispy Kremes it will shoot just fine, “fine” being within the accuracy limits of  20th Century Model 70 big game hunting rifles, less than 2 minutes of angle and often much better. 

The late Jack O’Connor, longtime shooting editor of Outdoor Life and an avid proponent of fine custom rifle making, had an extensive collection of game and varmint rifles based on Mauser, Winchester Model 70, and other actions, all made by the very best custom gunmakers in America.  He wrote on several occasions that his game rifles averaged between 1.50 and 1.75 MOA, occasionally dipping down to 1.25 or less, any of which he considered perfectly adequate for hunting antelope and mountain sheep. (O’Connor was a Grand Slam sheep hunter well before the term was coined and had repeated it so many times he became uncomfortable talking about the idea.)

George,  Yes, that is an aftermarket stock on an early Model 70 barreled action that has been refinished.  

It has no collector value but is likely a perfectly sound hunting rifle.  You might want to have a gunsmith check the headspace but otherwise take it to the range and see how it shoots. I bet it will stay within 1.5 to 1.75 MOA and there’s no game animal.in America you can’t hunt with it. 

ALTERNATIVE PARTS VALUES: As long as it has not been abused, the action itself has the most value of the rifle’s component parts,followed by the scope and mount. The barrel and stock have minimal to no resale value.

The thing to bear in mind is you probably have a sound and useful hunting rifle for a fraction of the price of a new one. Assuming you paid only several hundred dollars for it. 

I hope this helps answer your questions about your rifle and I encourage you to join us and become a WACA member. It’s a very enjoyable and educational experience.

Hi George-

I’d agree that the action is worth more than you paid for the rifle…  

There is little doubt in my mind that the barrel on your rifle was originally made with an integral front sight ramp that was subsequently removed, after which the barrel and receiver were both polished and reblued.  Winchester did not make standard contour barrels without front sight ramps in 1936, and as I said above, when a Model 70 was ordered “without sights” at the time it only meant that dovetail blanks were installed in the ramp and rear sight dovetail instead of sights. 

By the mid-1950s, Winchester did make true “sightless” barrels and even cataloged it as a $5.60 “Extra” beginning in 1960.  But…  When they left off the silver brazed ramp they also omitted the rear sight dovetail.  The fact that your ’36 dated barrel has a rear sight dovetail is further evidence that it once had a front ramp.  I will post photos of a genuine factory “sightless” standard contour barrel from 1960.  This is a standard Westerner 264 WIN MAGNUM, something that could be ordered from Gopher Shooters Supply in 1962-63..

As far as what to do with the rifle…  Just my opinion… Since, in addition to the barrel modification, the receiver has been reblued and the bridge has at least one non-factory F&T hole, the gun cannot be returned to “original configuration” even by replacing the stock and barrel.  Also, finding a ’36 dated 30 GOV’T’06 barrel and a truly correct (for 1936) standard stock would be difficult and certainly cost more than twice what you have in the gun. 

Personally, I would prefer an original NRA style M70 stock to what’s on the gun now, however.  So, if you plan to keep the rifle to shoot/hunt, I think that I would first try it out as-is and see if it shoots accurately enough to meet expectations.  If so, I’d leave the barrel alone and try to find a pre-war (cloverleaf tang) stock that had been fit with a non-factory recoil pad.  Such stocks are MUCH cheaper and easier to find than uncut original finish stocks.  If need be, replace the recoil pad with something more “period” looking than a ventilated Pachmayr White Line pad, and have fun!!! 

Just my take…

Lou