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Does anyone know why a M70 338 would have the proof mark on top of the barrel instead if being in line with the otther next to the stock?
Thank you for your reponse. It is a mid 1960’s model.It doesn’t signify a factory return?
Your Model 70 left the factory as a new gun with the proof markings you describe. They do not of themselves indicate any return to the factory for any purpose. In fact, in the nineteen sixties Winchester took increasing latitude with their placement of such proofs. Nothing more to be read into the misalignment than that. My 1963 Model 70 in .300 Win Mag reflects the same situation as you describe.
My take
November 5, 2014
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Iskra is right.
Beginning sometime late in pre-64 Model 70 production, c. 1963, the barrel proof marks were applied pretty much anywhere between where they should have been (opposite the receiver proof) and the top of the barrel.
Just like Iskra, the only M70 currently in my possession that has the misaligned barrel proof mark is a late 300 Wim. Magnum (S/N 562444), but Roger Rule’s book reports that it’s common from around 1963 onwards.
A factory returned rifle may have a disassembly number (5 digits?) stamped on the bottom of the barrel below the chamber, and maybe a single digit (last digit of the year of repair?) stamped inside the left lug raceway. But the misaligned proof marks were par for the course in routine production.
Cheers
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
I also have a Win 70 pre64 in 300 win mag with the barrel proof mark in the 1200 position. The receiver proof mark is at the 9:00 or left side of the receiver. The bolt has inscribed serial number to match the receiver. The recoil lug has inscribed “458” which is appropriate.
The only concern that I have is the production year. Based on my serial number, the gun was produced in 1961 which is 1 year ahead of the introduction of the 300 win mag caliber. Any explanation?
my serial number is 508,xxx.
November 5, 2014
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Please describe the stock on the rifle. The production pre-64 300 Win Mag “Westerner-Alaskan” rifles were all assembled 1962-1963 and only catalogued 1963. The stock was a Monte Carlo standard with ventilated red Winchester marked recoil pad (made by Pachmayr) with the late narrow machine cut checkering. Any rifle with wider hand cut checkering panels and/or a solid red rubber pad, even 1961, would be rebarreled. In your case the rifle seemingly has a genuine 300 Win Mag barrel. The misplaced barrel proof marks didn’t start turning up until circa 1963, which helps ‘date’ the barrel on the gun.
You’re right, the ‘458’ on the recoil lug indicates that the rifle has a genuine short magnum action (i.e. not a converted 30-06). I’d presume all the other short magnum-specific internals, e.g. magazine box, are correct…?
In 1959-1960 the catalogued short magnums were the 458 Win Mag African (obviously not – heavier barrel and Super Grade-only), the 264 Win Mag Westerner (no factory recoil pad), and the 338 Win Mag Alaskan (solid or ventilated recoil pad but in 1960 would not have machine cut checkering). The 26″ 264 Win Magnum barrel and 25″ 338 Win Magnum barrel had the same contour as the 24″ 300 Win Magnum barrel, so a replaced barrel would drop right into the stock.
So a couple of possibilities…
One is that the gun started life as a 338 Win Mag or 264 Win Mag and was fit with a genuine 300 Win Mag barrel after that cartridge was introduced. Could have been done as a factory refit or many years later. Does the rifle have any ‘funny’ numbers stamped on it, e.g. under the barrel or in the left bolt raceway, that might indicate a factory retrofit?
The other possibility, which I think less likely, is a rifle assembled out of serial number sequence. The out-of-sequence thing is quite common on the 338 Win Magnum Alaskans, since Winchester built a lot of short magnum actions with plans to make up Africans whose sales didn’t materialize. Those actions sat in inventory until the factory developed the more popular 338 Win Magnum in 1959. So it’s common the find ‘early’ 338 Win Magnum rifles with ‘458’ actions bearing 1957-1958 serial numbers, despite the fact that the rifle was not officially marketed until 1960. As it happens my current 338 Win Magnum has a 1958 serial number, and the one I had before that had a late 1957 serial number. But by the time the 300 Win Magnum came along, brisk sales of the 338 Win Magnum and 264 Win Magnum had erased the parts inventory backlog.
A picture may help…
Cheers…
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
The stock is as you describe. Monte Carlo with vented recoil pad with the Winchester branding running vertical to the pad. Checkering is the machine cut narrow checkering.
I also have a Winchester model 70 338 Alaskan dated 1963. Recoil lug reads 458, proof mark on receiver at 9:00 position. This rifle is Monte Carlos but definitely wider/bigger checkering than my 300 win mag.
i will provide pictures this weekend.
thank you for your feedback.
Underneath the barrel the text ” 300M” is marked.
my barrel reads 300 Win Magnum on the left side.
how do you attach pictures from your iPad? I an technically challenged.
November 5, 2014
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Sadwong-
My understanding is that you cannot post pictures directly if logged in a a ‘guest’. You’d have to use a third party host server, e.g. Photobucket, and then post the link here.
Alternatively, if you want, you can send the photos you want posted to me as an e-mail attachment ([email protected]) and I will post them for you. The maximum size for any one jpeg file on this site is about 1MB, so I might have to downsize them if they’re really high resolution.
The pictures might generate some helpful feedback.
Best,
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
November 5, 2014
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Attached are photos provided by Sadwong:
Rifle has a 508XXX serial number (1961), seemingly early for a Westerner-Alaskan. Any comments (besides the fact that the fixed sling swivels have been replaced) would be welcome.
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
Sadwong,
As I stated back at the first of this post, my 338 had the top barrel mark as you describe or the 300 WM. After extensive research I agree, the gun most likely came from the factory that way. The closer to 1963 the more I am disappointed with the attention to detail Winchester employed.
I noticed you had ballistic data on the side of your stock. What do you shoot? I have had a difficult time finding a load for the 1st 300 WM. I shot around 500 rounds before finding a sub MOA combination that shot an 180 gr bullet close to 3,000 fps. The first rifle was such a disappointment I purchased a 2nd 300 WM. It shoots most loads well but not like a M70 30-06 or 338. Now the 300 WM shoot great at 30-06 velocity but then why have a 300? I do not understand why Winchester did not extend that barrel to 26″. Regardless, if you have a proven load please share. If you want to save your barrel I can share more info on what doesn’t work than what does.
Good luck,Fielding
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