Log In
November 5, 2014
Offline
OK… Last time I did a post like this I got into a little trouble… But… Here are a couple web links to recent/upcoming auctions…
Back in the December 2025 Morphy Auction, they sold a 30 WCF M70 STANDARD rifle (s/n 234164) for $4,428. They described it as put together… The auction link is here…
The upcoming March Redding auction has a 30 WCF M70 SUPER GRADE (s/n 234164).
Hmmmm…. 
So in the span of only two months, it appears the rifle traveled all the way from Denver PA to Gettysburg PA, and en route transformed from a Standard rifle to a Super Grade…. Even if you believe it’s a genuine 30 WCF (which I do not – but that’s just a personal opinion), it appears to me that the evidence suggests that it’s not a genuine Super Grade!!! Note that Redding’s did not prepare the typed description or provide the pages from Rule’s book. Look at any other lot in any of their auctions…
This is merely an expression of my personal opinion, not an accusation of any kind…
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
April 15, 2005
Offline
Lou,
You have my FULL support in posting this. If anyone takes umbrage to this type of post, then I hope that they follow the lemming herd off of the proverbial cliff.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
November 7, 2015
Offline
Lou-
Opinion; possibly. Observation; quite certainly. This is one reason why you and a few other dedicated collectors sweat the details on surveys. Without these records this rifle might very well pass for the genuine article, except for folks like me with an aversion to the terms “possible” and “experimental”. Nicely done!
Mike
March 15, 2020
Offline
Obviously Winchester made 2 model 70s 30 WCF rifles with same SN.
I noticed double stamped proof on barrel of standard and tidied up on super model.
However, it is late at night and I might be seeing double
Goodnight, Don
May 23, 2009
Offline
Louis Luttrell said
Hmmmm…. So in the span of only two months, it appears the rifle traveled all the way from Denver PA to Gettysburg PA, and en route transformed from a Standard rifle to a Super Grade…. Even if you believe it’s a genuine 30 WCF (which I do not – but that’s just a personal opinion), it appears to me that the evidence suggests that it’s not a genuine Super Grade!!!
This is merely an expression of my personal opinion, not an accusation of any kind…
Oh Lou, Your in trouble now!! 
I’m no Model 70 expert, but based on the pictures shown in Rule’s book the barrel markings all around top and bottom don’t look correct.
I used to wonder how such things got to be done. But Larry Potterfield can sell you all the equipment you need to start cranking out Super Grade Barrels.
Sincerely,
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
December 9, 2002
Online
Louis, and others, I am also in full support of this and see the need for this time and time again, as to educate the masses, including myself!
There’s a reason, many of us respect you, and the rest of the Experts here on this great WACA Forum.
TXGunNut said
Lou-
Opinion; possibly. Observation; quite certainly. This is one reason why you and a few other dedicated collectors sweat the details on surveys. Without these records this rifle might very well pass for the genuine article, except for folks like me with an aversion to the terms “possible” and “experimental”. Nicely done!
Mike
I couldn’t have said it Better, than what Mike said, in trying to make my point!
Thanks once again All!
Anthony
August 8, 2024
Offline
Louis, Thank you again.
For making the Model 70 World a better place! I saw that gun for sale a Morphy’s, and just shook my head. I believed they called in “Custom Fabricated”. Now I guess it is “Super Custom Fabrcated”!
November 5, 2014
Offline
Hi Bob-
FWIW… So far I’ve only had good experiences with Redding’s Auction house in Gettysburg. For a business that auctions a lot of firearms, it seems to me they have fewer really questionable M70s than others. Last year I was able to get a genuine and intact 1st variation (ramped) M70 Target rifle in 257 ROBERTS from a Redding Auction. Try and find one of those with all its parts still attached!!!
Here’s a Redding gun that IMHO is collection worthy:
I wish I could say the same for Morphy’s Auction… Lots of merchandise I consider sketchy… At least they’ve started using “custom fabricated” euphemisms for “fake” in their descriptions… 
Of course, those “Project Salvo” M70 prototypes in the last Morphy Auction were real. They came from the Quisenberry collection…
What bugged me most about the 30 WCF Super Grade was the “quick turnaround” (sold mid-December and probably re-consigned in January) and the type written “description” that (IMHO) was supplied by the consignor. As you probably know, Redding’s writes out all the particulars on a manila tag they photograph along with the gun. They don’t type out two pages of “hype”!!! The fact that it was “upgraded” was just icing on the cake. That’s been going on for eons…
Best,
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
1 Guest(s)
