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Model 70 authenticity
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July 8, 2020 - 12:58 am
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I purchased an immaculate standard model 70 made in 1950 according to serial number.  The blueing seems strange to me as the barrel looks much the same as the receiver, a satin blackish color.  Am wondering if this rifle has been rebarreled or otherwise modified.  I. Measured the distance from the barrel end to the receiver and it is about 1/16″ shorter than another model 70 I have, also a 30-06.  Any thoughts?

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July 8, 2020 - 3:17 am
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Pictures always help but here are a couple things you could look for in a possible re barrel unless it’s a genuine Winchester barrel witch then would be hard to tell if it was factory or not unless it’s a post 64..1 the stamping of the barrel caliber indication Winchester proof steel such things like that..2 would be the bulge in the barrel where the rear sight is dovetailed in..as far as the bluing goes it sounds correct to me im not to hip on the old bluing methods but most if the old guns iv seen and looked over seem to have more of the satin to flat black bluing not the high gloss see on today’s guns..and as for it being a 16th shorter i would say that’s normal if it was an 1/8 shorter or more I would possibly think maybe it was recrowned but a 16th wouldn’t worry me

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July 8, 2020 - 7:03 am
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[email protected] said
I purchased an immaculate standard model 70 made in 1950 according to serial number.  The blueing seems strange to me as the barrel looks much the same as the receiver, a satin blackish color.  Am wondering if this rifle has been rebarreled or otherwise modified.  I. Measured the distance from the barrel end to the receiver and it is about 1/16″ shorter than another model 70 I have, also a 30-06.  Any thoughts?  

***

Hi, welcome & congrats on possessing a great rifle! A few comments. Of course, the barrel should posses the correct Winchester nomenclature of the 1950 era. Perhaps more significant, the barrel of 1950 vintage would have exhibited a particularly salient era feature. Happily so! A solid forged-integral front sight ramp! (‘Lux!’) If you have such forged ramp on your rifle that doesn’t insure originality, but if you don’t have such, it does disclose barrel non-originality in respect of receiver serialization.

From your information, I would believe the coloration you describe as “satin blackish” urges the conclusion of refinish. Below I will post a photo of an original 1950 Standard Model Winchester which I believe to possess the correct finish. Such a contrast between smooth blued barrel and contrasting receiver with something akin to parkerizing. (Please don’t ‘ping’ on exact coloration in the pix, the photo itself may be a bit ‘off’. Do ping on the ‘difference’ between receiver and barrel which is “typical”.

I’d like to move onto thin ice just now. To offer an entirely personal opinion at this point. The “collectible” nature of pre ’64 Model 70, is at heart based upon its reputation for a “genre” quality of design, materials and craftsmanship. That said, the “Standard Model” in 30-06 is the most common style & chambering. A further differentiation might be in the “prewar manufacture models, to arguably suggest some premium. Of course, your’s is not such in that category either.

Yours hovers between highest & best use as moderate collectible “original” when such; and likely quite handsome & respected field rifle. Where condition and originality issues may unduly compromise the “collectibility factor”, they may conversely argue for customization if only in refinish. An emerged “field value” as handsome specimen. The point where a notably finish-compromised and/or worn barrel. All the ‘beating heart’ virtues yet yielding renewed rifle possibilities. Losing originality ‘virginity’ may render a ‘net’ more valuable ‘enhanced’ field piece. Naturally ‘quality of any new materials & workmanship’ rendering the ‘new & handsome, required.

I have a quite nice ’51 vintage 70 Standard (metal) set in a quality, to my eyes, handsome euro-styled stock. Original metal finish but for engine turned bolt body. See below. I also have several “aesthetic beaters” of the same genre, any of which I’d happily trade for such as what I have in my referenced ‘non-original’.
As requested, photos could assist significantly. They offer the bonus of our experts here (not me) with opportunity to view & evaluate the whole rifle (photos-sufficient). Rendering the capability of providing a ‘whole picture’ evaluation. A real asset in this Winchester, wellspring, Forum!
Please do try to provide pix! 🙂
It’s late, but I have reviewed my words here! – Inside matter! 🙂
Best, Stay Safe and to all a Good Night!
JohnR116-26U.jpgImage EnlargerR402-8.jpgImage EnlargerR411-15U.jpgImage EnlargerR94-25U.jpgImage EnlargerR401-3U.jpgImage Enlarger

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July 8, 2020 - 3:11 pm
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Hi Jmwelna-

As it happens, there is a fairly good example of a 1953 M70 30-06 standard rifle currently showing on Guns International with a lot of clear photos.  It’s been sold, so I don’t know how long the photos will be there, but in the interim you can compare to your rifle:  

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/rifles/winchester-rifles-model-70-pre-64/pre-64-winchester-model-70-30-06-excellent-.cfm?gun_id=101473457

SN-273542-1.JPGImage EnlargerSN-273542-2.JPGImage Enlarger

Since this is a 1953 product and yours was made in 1950, there are a few minor details that would probably be different (so don’t fixate on them).  But the GI gun looks pretty good as far as representing what original finishes look like.  The differences:

1.  The integral front sight ramp was gradually replaced by the brazed on ramp (shorter and lacking the shallow grooves on the sides) beginning around 1952.  Yours would have the forged integral ramp as illustrated by John above.  The GI rifle has the brazed on #3 ramp.

2.  The GI rifle has what’s referred to (Rule’s nomenclature) as a type III-2 receiver (solid bolt knob and smooth curvature to the bolt release lever on the left side of the action).  Yours would most likely be a III-1 (same solid bolt knob but with a little “notch” in curved side of the bolt release).

3.  The caliber designation stamps changed in 1950.  The GI rifle has style 3C (one-piece left side roll mark with caliber designated “MODEL 70 – 30-06 SPRG. –”).  Yours might look like this, or it might be Style 3A (caliber die separate and marked “.30 GOV’T’06”) or Style 3B (caliber die separate and marked “.30 GOV’T’06 –”.  The distinction between 3A and 3B relates to the “dash” at the end, since 3A was made with a hand stamped caliber die, while 3B was made with a separate roll marked caliber die that needed a centering “hyphen”.  The 3B is relatively uncommon, but most that I’ve run across were on 1948-1950 rifles.

4.  It’s subtle, but the shape of the sliding insert in the Win 22G/K sporting rear sight is different between 1950 and 1953.  In 1950 it’s a shallow “U” shape with the sight notch cut at the bottom.  By 1953 it’s (usually) a shallow “V” with the notch at the bottom.  Otherwise, the GI rifle has the correct Win 22G sporting rear sight base and 3C elevator.

5.  I’ve no idea what kind of sh&t is smeared in the barrel channel of the GI rifle.  It doesn’t look like glass bedding but people used to put all kinds of wax or grease stuff in there to repel moisture.  On an unaltered gun the barrel channel has bare wood with a little slopped over (dark brown) filler. Ditto under the butt plate.  No lacquer finish under neath.

Hope this helps!!!  Smile

Lou

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WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters

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