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Hello everyone,
Im looking for help to verify authenticity on this 300 savage. It’s supposedly new in the box. I know just enough to get me into real trouble on rare model 70 rifles. Any help would be appreciated.
Gerald
Who is the seller if I can ask? Not because I want to steal it from you, but that helps to determine if it is authentic or not.
It might just be me, but that label and box look entirely too crisp.
Or maybe I have seen too many out of Calif. in the last several years….
I got it from a small dealer in southern Illinois. He is a friend of mine and I have bought many firearms from him. He said an older gentleman brought the gun in for him to sell.
The label is crisp. I thought about trying to remove the tape that is covering the Bird and Son box manufacturer logo. They usually have a date the box was manufactured at the bottom of the logo. Most fake boxes that I have seen will be missing the box makers logo although I sure someone could copy that too.
I wouldn’t be a buyer. The SPECIAL stamp makes it all the more unbelievable to me.
If you can’t convince them, confuse them
I wouldn’t try and remove that tape.
Sounds as if you could find out how long the gentleman had it that sold it to him. Might clear the provenance up a little. I looked at that special stamp as well, and it seems “perfectly” placed. The couple boxed labels I have had in the past , the stamps seemed to be more randomly placed. I know one thing, the stock on my 300 sav looks like firewood compared to that stock…..
November 5, 2014
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Hi Gerald-
I think (several) others would agree with me that the box label is fake. Insofar as I know, the WRA Co. address was never printed in type that large except on fake box labels that were produced by a certain party (not Winchester) a couple decades ago. Quite a few in the box guns with this label have been turning up in auctions over the past couple years.
If I’m wrong about the label, somebody please correct me because if that label is correct then I have been missing out on the opportunity to purchase some real “treasures” cheap… 
If the box is not original to the gun, one must wonder where the rifle has been sitting with all that packing grease on it for the last 72 years?
I’m not sure I could/should comment on the roll marks. At least the barrel address stamp is crisp (some really poor quality fakes have surfaced with barrel addresses that look like they done with a rotary graver/pantograph???), albeit not in these boxes. The caliber designation die stamp looks a bit large compared to most I’ve seen, but don’t quote me on that. There seem to be .300 SAVAGE barrels out there that were marked with at least three distinct caliber dies (these were roll dies, but separate from the address die), which is hard to figure if there were only 360 .300 SAVAGE barrels made (all/most in a single run in ’46). I don’t want to get into speculating which is/are correct (maybe all, maybe none).
I suspect that it is a restored (and likely restocked) gun in a replica box that may or may not be an original 300 SAVAGE. 
Best,
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
Point of curiosity. Did I miss something, or any particular reason the bolt isn’t in any of the pix? Though ‘presumably’ not bearing on issue (were I even qualified to comment), I’d still not wish to offer analysis/conclusions without seeing the entire elephant. Wrong era component(s), wear pattern, missing/non matching/irregular SN, aesthetic tampering, ‘other’… Outside possibilities! If seeking expert opinions, I’d surely want to put all the cards on the table instead of myself predetermining relevance.
Question to ask, ‘would I buy the rifle without viewing & evaluating the bolt? Resting my case and…
Just my take
John
John, my mistake and your right. Bolt was out of the gun and I didn’t think of taking pics of the bolt. Here are pics of the bolt.
Thanks for all your opinions.
Gerald
November 5, 2014
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All-
Just another comment on the box label. The attached (rather poor qualitty) photo is something I composited together a while ago (sorry the resolution is bad – it reflects the source files). FWIW… none of these are my guns:
I am not (as yet) knowledgeable about how (and when), exactly the address line evolved on Winchester box labels, so only want to make a couple general comments. If anyone is willing to clarify this I’d be grateful!!! 
Anyway… I try to keep in mind that if there were 581000+ pre-64 M70s, there were also 581000+ original pre-64 M70 boxes. So the two ways to fake a NIB box gun are: 1) take an original box from another gun and either replace the label or (if by chance the box has the correct catalog symbol) just change the hand written S/N on the label; or, 2) make the both box and label from scratch. The former is commonly seen with 20th century Colt pistols where the S/N was hand written in pencil on the bottom of the box. (I have a fondness for pre-war Colt Woodsman pistols where one see this quite often).
As for the photo, note that the label on the middle box (which is similar to the one starting this post) is S/N 183472. The top box (at present anyway) is numbered 33854 (or maybe 133854, which might help explain the “30-06 Springfield” as opposed to “.30 GOV’T’06” caliber designation???) and the bottom box (marked “Special”) is numbered 220285. I was trying to find box labels that were before/after the subject rifle. The middle box has a very different address line, and I find it hard to believe that Winchester changed the address and then changed it back (???).
So my guess is that the top and bottom labels are “real” and the middle one is a “new reprint”, albeit possibly pasted onto an original box. The top one may be a “renumbered” but otherwise original label (???).
Here’s the interesting part… S/N 220285 belongs to a genuine Van Orden Sniper, so if this is its actual box the “Special” designation would apply. This gun/box sold via RIA a couple years ago (not to me)…
Challenging…
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
Lou,
I don’t know squat about the box labels but just throwing a WAG out there. Could it be possible that Winchester had slight variations in the labels depending on the caliber and sight options. Both of the 06 labels are pretty much the same, one lists the Lyman sights. The Hornet box being different in the address part. Just a thought……..
Best,
Erin
November 5, 2014
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Hi Erin-
Good thought… This is a topic on which I am not claiming to be an expert.
Here’s another photo of M70 box ends. These are from a friend’s collection… I suspect many (if not all) of these to be original. The top box is S/N 81431, a transition .270 WCF standard rifle, only a couple years later than the subject rifle:
While there may be variations, and those variations may be caliber specific (the label carried the catalog symbol, so each style/caliber/sight combination had its own label), I do find it hard to think that Olin Corp would have ever allowed WRA Co. labels to be printed w/o their name on it for very long after they acquired the company.
Like I said, this is a subject about which I want to learn… 
Cheers,
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
November 7, 2015
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Without a doubt that is one beautiful rifle! I’m a bit prejudiced against NIB guns but I don’t know enough about the subject of the box and label to be helpful. Barrel stamping(s) look a bit odd but I’m quite likely wrong about that.
Mike
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