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Gentlemen,
I am new to the forum, although not new to firearms. My father left me a Buffalo Bill commemorative 1894 saddle ring rifle several years. He shot it once and it has spent the intervening 40 plus years in the closet. It never held much interest for me for some reason. Perhaps because it seemed more like a showpiece than a working firearm. I purchased a Marlin 94 in 44 cal a number of years ago for competition and it seemed to be a better design. It has served me well over the years.
A couple of weeks while vacationing with my bride I was drawn to the model 1895s, particularly to the saddle ring carbine variants. I spotted one with a fair amount of original blue (unrefinished), decent bore and mechanism in 30-40 Krag. It is the model without the upper handguard but an intact barrel mounted ladder sight and front blade sight. The stocks are without cracks, screws appear unmessed with and the serial number is 402237. Several questions have come to mind: what was the ratio of rifles produced compared to carbines, were 1895 carbines ever stocked with gumwood and if so during what general years and were carbines more prevalent with or without the upper hand guard? In decent shape what would be a reasonable price for such a carbine-about $2000? I have seen them range from about $1500 to $4500 on a number of the internet sites in various conditions and originality.
Thank you,
Ricardo
Hi Ricardo
Carbines are noted in about 13 percent of the Model 1895 ledger entries for the first 59,999 serial numbers, after taking into account they regularly begin to show up after the 7500-8000 s/n range. We currently do not have a large enough sample size in the Model 1895 survey for serials after s/n 59999, for which there are nearly no detailed factory records known to us, to accurately estimate the percentage that are Carbines. Several things skew the survey entries we have so far, one being the large number of Carbines in the 400000-402000 range that have been on the market and readily available for the survey. The majority of them are .30 US/.30 Army, like the one you mention. In general, I believe Carbines became increasingly popular, especially after the .30-06 was introduced. Winchester also received orders for Model 1895 Carbines in 1915 during the Mexican revolution/civil war. Some examples of those orders are shown in the Winter 2018 Winchester Collector and in our book.
Most Carbines have a handguard. Does the Carbine you are looking at have recesses in the top of the forearm for the handguard clips? Do you believe it is stocked with gumwood?
Thanks
Brad,
Thank you for your reply.
The stock looked pretty light colored although the grain appeared tight like walnut. The shopowner told me that it appeared to be walnut to him but I began to wonder after looking at some fotos on the internet of carbines stocked in gum wood. It doesn’t have the dark colored buises that I have seen on gumwood stocks but it does look light colored. Were 1895’s of this serial number block regularly stocked in gumwood or was that mostly confined to the 1892/4 carbines? I will try to get another look tomorrow and take some fotos if I get home from work in time.
Some sites such as this one have this serial number as being produced in 1917 and others have it as a 1921 production date. I wonder why such a variance.
The price is $1999 firm, cash in hand. I have been seeing people ask for a lot more for some examples that have serious, obvious flaws but even so, $2000 still seems like quite a bit of money. I am not seeing nearly as many carbines for sale as rifles and most that I do so are quite worn. Most that are decent shape are in the $2500 dollar range and higher.
Ricardo
Hi Ricardo
Offhand, I can’t remember seeing a Model 95 stocked with gumwood. S/N 402237 has a Polishing Room Serialization Record Book date year of 1917. Those dates and Factory Warehouse Ledger dates, when available for the model and serial number range, are provided by the Firearms Records Office at the BBCOTW in Cody, WY, from original Winchester records. You can also look up the s/n here on WACA website:
https://winchestercollector.org/dates/
I really can’t comment on a value or price, especially without pictures. You should get some comments if you post some images of the Carbine.
Good luck with this Model 1895 or the next one, they are great firearms.
Brad et al,
I just got some time to relook at the Winchester 1895 that I have spoken of earlier in this post and took some pictures.
After this look, I have some concerns: I noticed that there is a small chip on the stock where the receiver meets the tang on the LH side. There are about three spots on the stock which appeared to have been filled in with “plastic wood” putty that is roughly the shade of the walnut. It is a hundred year old carbine so I expect gouges but wish that the previous owner had just left them in the raw. Most concerning is the plastic wood repair to the stock at the rear of the top tang which leads me to think that it may be covering a crack or at least a lost splinter of wood. Finally there are the four recesses in the forearm that indicate that at one time this carbine hadan upper forearm. The mechanism is tight the barrel is in decent shape and the rifle has a better than average amount of blueing remaining with no indication to me of a re-blue. The carbine also has the proper carbine buttplate with sliding cover intact.
My gut is to pass on this one but would like your thoughts.
Thank you,
Ricardo
Dont take my advice because im the worst (someone will be along shortly to correct me) . Gun looks heavily cleaned to me and obvious signs of doctoring or preservation attempts. maybe my poor resolution screen but is there and bluing missing from saddle ring? marks on the reciever from the saddle ring rubbing? doesnt appear so to me, which is weird for the wood to show the signs of use that it does.
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