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March 1, 2011
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Hello all,
I have an oppourtunity to purchase a very good or better condition Model 1894 Takedown short rifle in 32-40 with 20″ octagon barrel.
The rifle does has handling marks, blue wear and wood dings, but no rust/corrosion. Bore is shiny and the takedown connection is tight.
Finish is pretty much worn from receiver but plenty left on the barrel/tube as is typically found.
I have not lettered the rifle, but there is no indication that the barrel has been cut or altered in any way. All measurements are correct.
Seller has not set a price but I am fishing for someone who may have sold one similar and can give me some guidance as to what price range this should sell for.
Sorry but I do not have photos at this time.
Your feedback is appreciated,
Tom
Tom Graham - Salmon, Idaho
I would sure want to know about the barrel BEFORE I went any further unless you don’t care about the collector value. Don’t assume anything.
March 1, 2011
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I was able to get information from Cody regarding this rifle in the records do not indicate what the barrel length was when it was shipped. All other information adds up and is correct.
Tom Graham - Salmon, Idaho
It’s my understanding that if the factory records do not indicate barrel length then the gun most likely left the factory with a standard length (26”) barrel….
Photo’s would be tremendously helpful at this point but I would have to agree with Ted on this one. Cody is pretty accurate but they do make mistakes.
March 1, 2011
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It has always been my understanding that you are correct if the barrel length was not stated it was typically a 26 inch standard barrel however there are exceptions to this as we all know.
If the gun looks to be in original condition with no obvious reconstruction it would be hard to prove it’s not original.
I will take some photos later on and post them
Tom Graham - Salmon, Idaho
THREEDFLYER said
It has always been my understanding that you are correct if the barrel length was not stated it was typically a 26 inch standard barrel however there are exceptions to this as we all know.If the gun looks to be in original condition with no obvious reconstruction it would be hard to prove it’s not original.
I will take some photos later on and post them
Tom,
There are some key details/measurements you need to verify to determine the originality of a factory short rifle. You should find the attached old forum thread very helpful. In this case, the Cabelas rifle checked out perfectly and I bought it.
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-rifles/1894-short-rifle-at-cabelas/
Don
March 1, 2011
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Here are photos of the rifle in question…..I have compared this short rifle to my 26″ take-down and the dimensions are identical.
The dovetail for the sight looks to be machined, not made with a file. The machine marks on the dovetail matches what I see on my factory 26″ barrel.
This rifle has the long forend and measures 5″ from center of rear sight dovetail to receiver.
CLICK ON PHOTOS TO ENLARGE
Tom Graham - Salmon, Idaho
March 1, 2011
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deerhunter said
Tom,What is the diameter of the muzzle face?
The diameter at the muzzle is .734 on this short rifle measuring with a digital caliper.
From some of the posts I have read by others, this dimension matches what another forum member posted that his 20″ short rifle measured.
Here is what pdog72 posted back in 2015……
At the muzzle –
26″ Oct – .708
22″ Rd – .716
22″ Oct – .734
22″ 1/2 Oct – .685
20″ Oct – .735
20″ Rd – .726
Tom Graham - Salmon, Idaho
It does not appear that the front sight dovetail cut is blued. Instead, it appears to be in the white. If that is the case, it was not cut by Winchester.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
March 1, 2011
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If you are correct and the dovetail is not factory cut, someone did one heck of nice job on it.
It was certainly done by a machine and not by hand based on the milling marks.
All of the measurements appear to be to factory specs. Maybe someone in the rifles long life did something to remove the bluing in the dovetail, we will never know.
And that fact that no barrel length is recorded on this one in the archives does not guarantee that it started life with a 26″ barrel.
But all that said your observation of no blue in the dovetail notch cannot be disputed.
Tom Graham - Salmon, Idaho
THREEDFLYER said
If you are correct and the dovetail is not factory cut, someone did one heck of nice job on it.It was certainly done by a machine and not by hand based on the milling marks.
All of the measurements appear to be to factory specs. Maybe someone in the rifles long life did something to remove the bluing in the dovetail, we will never know.
And that fact that no barrel length is recorded on this one in the archives does not guarantee that it started life with a 26″ barrel.
But all that said your observation of no blue in the dovetail notch cannot be disputed.
Tom, I think it was stated above that if the barrel length was NOT stated in a letter, that it was a standard 26″ barrel. You can assume anything you want about mistakes in the records, but a factory letter will never show that it was built as a 20″ barrel. Some would shy from it for that reason. It’s a nice looking gun, and you are certainly correct that is sure looks original, but if I was the buyer, it would depend on how much the seller wanted for it. Peter
March 1, 2011
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Peter,
Depending on what the seller’s price will be I will still pursue this one.
My collection is built of mostly working condition guns, nothing that would be considered a “Safe Queen” and some have been modified in some way.
I don’t come across many 94’s in 32-40 and the short barrel (factory or not) is just plain cool!!
My main collecting interest is S&W hand ejectors, primarily pre-model number and pre-WWII guns, but the lure of these old Winchesters is just hard to resist.
Thanks for all the feedback and observations and keep your powder dry!
Tom Graham - Salmon, Idaho
A nice 32-40 is hard to find anyway, and this one is unique. I’d buy it for the right price too. Luck, Peter
I could be wrong but on a short rifle I would expect the rear sight placement to be closer to the receiver and caliber markings to be on the side.
nanzca said
I could be wrong but on a short rifle I would expect the rear sight placement to be closer to the muzzle and caliber markings to be on the side.
I think you wanted to say “closer to the receiver” and I very much agree.
The rifle does not letter as a 20 inch barrel. The front sight dovetail is not blued. The fore end is standard length. The rear sight is not positioned further to the rear. And the magazine show absolutely NO bluing loss at the retaining band that would indicate the rifle was ever taken apart. I strongly believe the rifle is not original in it current configuration.
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
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