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I have a friend out in Arizona who has a Model 1892 that was fitted with a .218 Bee barrel from a Model 65. About two years ago, he began having problems with the cartridge carrier not lifting to chamber the cartridge. He’s had several gunsmiths look at the problem and hasn’t been able to resolve the problem. One of the gunsmiths told him that he removed the carrier and compared it to one from a function rifle and could not see and difference between the two. I don’t know if he tried swapping them to see if it resolved the problem with the malfunctioning rifle.
Anyway, my friend has offered to sell me the rifle, but I wanted to ask for some advice before moving forward. I’ve comfortable with the disassembly/reassemby of the Model 1892’s action, but am uncertain as to what action parts would have required changing at the time of the rebarrel. I don’t know what the rifle’s original factory chambering was, but is the carrier unique to the .218 Bee or did the .32-20/.25-20 carrier work for it as well? Also, I’m assuming the cartridge guides may be different. I’m a little worried about repair parts availability.
I’m going to Arizona in July and will get a firsthand look at the problem, but want to be better prepared concerning the repair parts availabilty situation. I should have the rifle’s serial number in a few days, which may help in determining the original chambering.
Any advice or informarion is greatly appreciated.
Gus
Hello Gus,
I suspect that the problem is with the carrier. To convert a Model 1892 to 218 Bee, it would first have to be a 25-20 WCF or 32 WCF. If it was originally a 32 WCF, the carrier positively must be swapped. While I cannot positively state that a 25-20 carrier will function perfectly with a 218 Bee cartridge, I believe that it should.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert,
Thank you for your comments. I hope it turns out to be a relatively easy fix. I do worry that two gunsmiths weren’t able to identify the problem.
Thanks,
Gus
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Green River Gus said
I have a friend out in Arizona who has a Model 1892 that was fitted with a .218 Bee barrel from a Model 65. About two years ago, he began having problems with the cartridge carrier not lifting to chamber the cartridge. He’s had several gunsmiths look at the problem and hasn’t been able to resolve the problem. One of the gunsmiths told him that he removed the carrier and compared it to one from a function rifle and could not see and difference between the two. I don’t know if he tried swapping them to see if it resolved the problem with the malfunctioning rifle.Anyway, my friend has offered to sell me the rifle, but I wanted to ask for some advice before moving forward. I’ve comfortable with the disassembly/reassemby of the Model 1892’s action, but am uncertain as to what action parts would have required changing at the time of the rebarrel. I don’t know what the rifle’s original factory chambering was, but is the carrier unique to the .218 Bee or did the .32-20/.25-20 carrier work for it as well? Also, I’m assuming the cartridge guides may be different. I’m a little worried about repair parts availability.
I’m going to Arizona in July and will get a firsthand look at the problem, but want to be better prepared concerning the repair parts availabilty situation. I should have the rifle’s serial number in a few days, which may help in determining the original chambering.
Any advice or informarion is greatly appreciated.
Gus
So it worked fine for a period of time – an extended period of time?
Steve,
It functioned properly until a couple of years ago. My friend acquired the rifle in the 1970’s from a family friend in Prescott. I shot the rifle a few times prior to that during trips to the range. Whatever happened, it was abrupt. He’s shot the rifle since then by single round feeding. I do remember looking at the carrier and thought it looked a bit unusual. Unlike the carrier in my .38 WCF Model 1892, this one resembled a two prong fork. I guess it’s possible it was modified in some manner.
Thanks,
Gus
Green River Gus said
Steve,It functioned properly until a couple of years ago. My friend acquired the rifle in the 1970’s from a family friend in Prescott. I shot the rifle a few times prior to that during trips to the range. Whatever happened, it was abrupt. He’s shot the rifle since then by single round feeding. I do remember looking at the carrier and thought it looked a bit unusual. Unlike the carrier in my .38 WCF Model 1892, this one resembled a two prong fork. I guess it’s possible it was modified in some manner.
Thanks,
Gus
Interesting. Generally when something quits working abruptly, the answer is that something broke. If it had the wrong part in it, it wouldn’t have worked fine for many years and then stopped working. It might be it didn’t have the correct part in it, but that part did work – until it broke?
Steve,
I’ve got a complete small caliber carrier, carrier screws, and cartridge stop spring I’m taking with me. I’m not sure if the .25-20/.32-20 carrier will work for the .218 Bee cartridge, but it may give me an indication of what’s wrong if it cycles properly when installed. I’ll just have to get into it when I get there and hope it’s repairable.
Thanks,
Gus
Well I finaly got a firsthand look at the rifle and found several problems.
– the cartridge carrier has a machined cut out on the right side, which allows it to pass the tab on the loading gate. With the loading gate screw fully tightened, the loading gate tab is catching on the forward edge of the cut out on the cartridge carrier. Loosening the loading gate screw and allowing a little flex in the loading gate’s spring arm has moved the tab back slightly, allowing the cartridge carrier to fully lift. The loading gate wear doesn’t look like it matches the rest of the rifle, so may have been replaced at some point. Were there different loading gates used on the 1892, large caliber vs. small caliber and is there a way to differentiate between the two? I’m considering remove a tiny amount of material from the loading gate tab to solve the problem.
– the cartridge stop spring is missing. Ordered replacement.
-the ejector collar and spring are almost certainly homemade. They work, but I’ve ordered replacements.
– the extractor has to be held down to remove the spent cartridge. Ordered replacement.
Green River Gus said
Well I finaly got a firsthand look at the rifle and found several problems.– the cartridge carrier has a machined cut out on the right side, which allows it to pass the tab on the loading gate. With the loading gate screw fully tightened, the loading gate tab is catching on the forward edge of the cut out on the cartridge carrier. Loosening the loading gate screw and allowing a little flex in the loading gate’s spring arm has moved the tab back slightly, allowing the cartridge carrier to fully lift. The loading gate wear doesn’t look like it matches the rest of the rifle, so may have been replaced at some point. Were there different loading gates used on the 1892, large caliber vs. small caliber and is there a way to differentiate between the two? I’m considering remove a tiny amount of material from the loading gate tab to solve the problem.
– the cartridge stop spring is missing. Ordered replacement.
-the ejector collar and spring are almost certainly homemade. They work, but I’ve ordered replacements.
– the extractor has to be held down to remove the spent cartridge. Ordered replacement.
Excellent – it sounds like the picture became quite clear once you were able to examine the rifle. I hope the parts changes solve the issue.
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