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Hello all,
While cataloging Model 1892 rifles in my survey I have noted 4 SRC’s in 44 WCF caliber which are marked “CHINA NAVIGATION Co. Ltd. on the left side of the barrel just beneath the rear sight. To date I have found SN 199425, 207489, 302356, and 309720. These rifles may also have a numeric stamp on the upper tang and a letter stamped on the top of the receiver just to the rear of the barrel. One rifle also has a B&S (Butterfield & Swire, owners of the China Navigation Co) serial number on left side of receiver. I am in touch with a fellow collector and a representative of the current Swire & Co in New Zealand who have both done some research into these rifles. If anyone has one of these marked rifles I would be very interested in getting more information and photos of your rifle to add into my data base. The images below are from SN 199425.
Thanks so much for your help
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
Hi Michael
This may be of interest to you. I have an 1892 Carbine in 44 WCF. The barrel has been replaced, and unmarked, but the other markings are —
BS over NO 84. on Left side of Stock. Has no oval marking. 84 behind Hammer, on side of Lever, on bottom of rear barrel Band, and on side of
Magazine tube near muzzle. On top of Receiver over chamber is letter F. This Carbine, Serial No. 86532 is also marked with the 84 number on the
bottom of the Hammer, and the bottom of the Breach Block. All numbers are square and precise and look like they have been there since new.
I can send photos if you need them, but there are no barrel markings. Let me know, Eric
Eric Ryan said
Hi MichaelThis may be of interest to you. I have an 1892 Carbine in 44 WCF. The barrel has been replaced, and unmarked, but the other markings are —
BS over NO 84. on Left side of Stock. Has no oval marking. 84 behind Hammer, on side of Lever, on bottom of rear barrel Band, and on side of
Magazine tube near muzzle. On top of Receiver over chamber is letter F. This Carbine, Serial No. 86532 is also marked with the 84 number on the
bottom of the Hammer, and the bottom of the Breach Block. All numbers are square and precise and look like they have been there since new.
I can send photos if you need them, but there are no barrel markings. Let me know, Eric
Good morning Eric,
SN 83562 was originally built in 44 WCF so nothing appears to be changed regarding the configuration. Yes, please do forward photos to me at my email [email protected] Does the number on the muzzle match the one in the attached photo? Do you live in Australia by chance Eric. I actually have this rifle entered in my survey listing with the original barrel address style noted. I must have received information on it before the switch but I have no saved photos of the gun. I have sent an email to the then owner to see if there is any chance of getting some pics.
Thanks
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
May 3, 2020
Offline
Resurrection of an old thread
My China navigation carbine arrived today from Henry Mero
it too has a cartouche on the stock but it’s under some brown varnish I can just about make out numbers No 42 and circular China navigation mark.
also has j j under the 
lever on the bottom tang
BASC member
Coldweld. Congratulations on your new acquisition.
Is your example marked with British commercial proof marks by any chance?
Regards
AlanD
Sydney
May 3, 2020
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Hi Alan London proof house special proof 1887-1925 showing only one proof charge as opposed to the usual two.
barrel is very good 
testing some 3 shot groups yesterday
BASC member
I thought it would.
The J.J. mark was applied by the UK agent for Winchester & Colt, The London Armoury Co.
Most Colt collectors are familiar with the marking, as it shows up on a lot of Colt pistols, bearing London proofs.
Its more rarely seen on Winchesters. I have seen it on a Winchester Model 1907 or 1910 – forget which it was as it was over 20 years ago.
The marking is thought to be a marking to assist with warranty claims, but this is speculative as no written evidence has been found. The two letters were the first two letters in the LAC’s manager.
Regards
AlanD
May 3, 2020
Offline
Hi Alan
How many China navigation rifles do you know that still exist ? I suspect that not a great amount where bought compared to the British ww1 Winchesters.
It took me a few weeks to find what the proof marks where as the closest I could find for a while where military marks but they are different.
I assume you the expert Michael talks about, the more I can learn about the China navigation firearms is a positive and very interesting to try and find out what my rifle has been upto all these years .
kind regards
Dean
BASC member
May 3, 2020
Offline
Alan could you please shed some light on what these numbers mean ?
regards
Dean
BASC member
Dean
I really do not know much about the China Navigation Co carbines, I am sure Bert & Michael will know more than me. One thing is for sure, the quantity of these will be a lot less than the 5,000 Model 1894 and 20,000 Model 1892 SRC’s that the Admiralty purchased.
It looks as if the CN Co carbines were purchased through the London Armoury Co, in the UK. If so presumably all of the other known examples will have London commercial proof marks, like your example. I wonder how many of them will have the J.J. marking on the bottom tang that the owner has not noticed. Time to did those carbines out fellers.
The markings on the underside of the receiver on the Model 1892 in the photo appear to be a rack or ownership number. I have never seen this on any of the Model 1892 or Model 1894 DCP carbines and the serial number of the carbine in the photo is after the known serial number range of the DCP carbines.
So unless someone else has a similarly marked example to the one in the photo and for some reason knows the back story to it, it is likely you will never know who put the marking on the gun.
Regards
AlanD
May 3, 2020
Offline
How many members have China Navigation carbines
BASC member
I have two china navigation marked 1892 winchester carbines. who has any info on them, thanks Merle
Both are British proofed, serial numbers are 68442 and 68445 just 3 numbers apart. which makes them made 1894, letter states they were both shipped out in 1897. If you email me at [email protected] I could send you some pictures. thanks for the reply. Merle.
I think if You check the dates of manufacture, under resources ,they were made in 1897, not 1894
W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.
I have an 1892 44-40 China Navigation Co., LTD, sn208075 with British proofs on barrel and receiver. Order number 11639 matches Michael’s list of orders. The receiver top has an “F” stamp as well as a British proof mark on the bolt in front of the hammer. Upper tang has “116” marked behind hammer, and number “16” on the muzzle end of the tube. Left rear stock shows “BS” over “NO 116”, and faint oval below. There is a “63” on right side of the lower receiver next to top of lever and “21” on the left side.
Letter shows received in warehouse 12-23-1902 and shipped 12-29-1902 on order number 11639.
Hope this helps anyone pursuing the subject, and any research accumulated would be appreciated. Wikipedia has information on The China Navigation Company, Ltd. Also has their logo on it.
Bill
Hello Merle,
Thanks or sending the pics to me. Those are the earliest China Nav marked rifles in my survey. The next ones show up in the 86000 and 87000 SN range. Were they shipped in the same Order number? Could you send me a pic of the barrel address stamp on each rifle? I will do some more digging around in my data.
thanks
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
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