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Hello,
I have a model 1886 Rifle 45/70 octagon,TD with Fancy,PG Buttstock (checkered) and .w/Shotgun butt. This is all verified by Cody letter. The forend wood is also highly figured and matches the stock perfectly but is not checkered. Is there any way of knowing if this is correct ? I realize that Winchester would accommodate most any order but was wondering if the absence of checking would have been noted on records.
Respectfully Jerry
Jerry,
Does the Cody letter say checkered or not? I see you put checkered in parenthesis.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Bob
The Cody letter does not say checkered, just fancy pistol grip. It is factory checkering on the butt stock I’m quite sure of that… I also lists High Velocity and 1/2 Magazine & Lyman front and rear sights. 1905 mfg. returned for repair on May 22,1907. Order #12077. IMO, Interesting rifle with a few nice special orders. Thanks for the reply.
Online
Interesting rifle with many positives. I have seen one M1886 which had a checkered buttstock but the forend was not checkered. This was noted in the Cody letter.
With your rifle, I think it is most likely that the forend was changed during the return and repair. One can only speculate what the customer specified. Perhaps the forearm was damaged and he didn’t want to pay extra for the checkering. Or perhaps he didn’t want checkering on the forearm.
What to do? If anything?
I know some collectors would be tempted to have a restorer skilled in duplicating Winchester checkering patterns, to checker the forearm. It would then, “letter.” In fact, the checkering job would not be an example of, “the checkering was redone or refreshed” (technically speaking) 
If the letter does not say “checkered”, my assumption would be that the forend stock is correct (original), and that the butt stock was checkered at a later time (possibly during the R&R). If it were me, I would pull the butt stock off of the gun and check the stamped markings on the left edge of the lower tang, and for any stamped markings in the upper tang channel on the butt stock.
Pictures of the stocks and markings would be very beneficial.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
I would agree with all that has been said thus far. Pictures of the gun, letter, and pull the butt stock and look for the numbers. Unfortunate with a rubber butt plate there will not be any numbers as on it like a steel crescent BP would. Up close picture of the checkering would help determine if it is in fact factory.
Ok, so he could sand the checking off the buttstock and the rifle would, “letter” 
steve004 said
Ok, so he could sand the checking off the buttstock and the rifle would, “letter”
Or maybe some one already did that to the fore stock? I would be very skeptical of it until I saw it and the letter in hand.
I would prefer it repaired/altered by factory in 1907 if that is what it seems to be , versus altered by anybody in 2024 to match letter. Let it be what it is.
I would never mess with . And I am certainly not trying to make it anything that it isn’t. I just thought I’d get a couple opinions from the folks here on the Winchester forum. I’ve had hundreds of Winchesters over the years only a few 86s. I believe the checkering on the butt stock is what is called semi deluxe. I’ll try to post some pics
Reddog said
Reddog said
Hello,
I have a model 1886 Rifle 45/70 octagon,TD with Fancy,PG Buttstock (checkered) and .w/Shotgun butt. This is all verified by Cody letter. The forend wood is also highly figured and matches the stock perfectly but is not checkered. Is there any way of knowing if this is correct ? I realize that Winchester would accommodate most any order but was wondering if the absence of checking would have been noted on records.
Respectfully Jerry
The rifle still has excellent condition for being 119 years old. If I get time in the next few days I will pull the stock as advised.Thanks for all the input .
That’s a very nice 86! The butt and forearm appear to match and checking looks factory. I certainly would not remove the checkering to make it letter, I like it!!
This is My “opinion ” only, and it’s something I don’t usually do , based on a few pictures, but You did ask. I believe the Front end of the gun and the back end of the gun are from two different guns. I see a big difference in the metal finish on the takedown flange and the receiver, hope I’m wrong.
W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.
Henry Mero said
This is My “opinion ” only, and it’s something I don’t usually do , based on a few pictures, but You did ask. I believe the Front end of the gun and the back end of the gun are from two different guns. I see a big difference in the metal finish on the takedown flange and the receiver, hope I’m wrong.
Henry,
Your observation is indeed a valid one. I agree.
To the OP: Please post photographs of the letter and an entire shot of both sides of this rifle.
It also appears that the forearm may be slightly more red than the stock, which suggests that both haven’t been together since manufacture; however, the grain of each certainly match.
Jerry,
This is my opinion of the rifle… if the CFM letter does not state “Checkered Stock, Pistol Grip“, the butt stock on the subject rifle is not original to the rifle. That stated, you mentioned that the factory letter has a “R&R” listed. If the rifle was returned to Winchester and the butt stock was checkered at that time, you should find the order no. associated with the R&R stamped into the wood somewhere on the butt stock (upper or lower tang channel, end grain of the butt underneath the butt plate, etc. In your shoes, I would carefully remove the butt stock and inspect it for the R&R work order #. I would also verify that it has a matching assembly number on the left edge of the lower tang.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
It is so unfortunate that what the “R&R” notations in the records, so rarely specifies what was done.
It will be very interesting to see what removal of the buttstock reveals.
And no, I wouldn’t take a piece of sandpaper to the buttstock. I’m just pointing out various options – all which have their downside.
I wish not to discredit this rifle, but it truly is close to Unicorn status. I of course agree with Bert about the work order number being stamped in the channels and tang, if it was a factory rework. The wording on the letter is the tell all. I would also point out the comment from Henry about the TD collar not matching, It is a little off in condition. But I have also seen other TD collars with the same problem, correct me if I wrong, it’s because of the bluing technique and the type and temper of the steel. Now for my cynical comment, if this gun was at an auction house, you name it, they would absolutely be selling a story using the R&R on the letter. There would be little information listed and if you called them on it, well we know where that would go. I suggest the OP do his due diligence and verify the gun to the letter. And never forget Winchester was very customer oriented back in the day.
Hello, I did not purchase this from an auction house it was purchased from the family of the original owner. I was aware that the opinion of the member that was concerned about the difference in finish on the take down collar didn’t real hold no water as far as I was concerned. As I stated in an earlier post I have had many old Winchesters of various models and configuration,rarely does the TD collar match in finish.You are correct in stating that a different blueing process was used. That being said stay tuned I took some picks and will be posting soon.
ALSO I want to say that although it has pretty high condition it about 90% . The rifle was used and hunted with and there are a couple of other thing that are a distraction condition wise . Thank you and EVERYONE for your inputs and knowledge. Hope to post my new pictures later tonight. JB
So after taking the advise of Bert and a couple other on the forum I removed the stock from the Rifle for inspection and also the butt plate. There are no markings on the stock at all however the upper and lower tang are stamped as you can see in the pictures. The biggest detraction to this rifle is the original owner initials in the lever and on the take down collar with what looks like a punch. I believe the fore end wood is correct and was told that is how they (the sellers) always rememberer it. Who knows ? I also think that maybe the pictures explain the receiver condition being different from the barrel assembly. WHAT SAY YOU ??
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