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https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/1034/35/antique-winchester-model-1886-lever-action-rifle
Wow – the setting is WWII and you are an American soldier very far from home… and a Japanese soldier is shooting at you with an 1886 .45-70 Winchester… Given he is described to be, “recovering from wounds” … that must mean he wasn’t hit dead center. Amazing. I know, “how much for the rifle and how much for the story?” We each have our opinions but, I think as improbable as it sounds, it just might be true.
Is it reasonable to believe the Japanese military would have tolerated the use of any non-standard rifle, EVEN IF there was plenty of ammo available for it? Esp. a rifle incapable of mounting a bayonet, dear to every Jap soldier. Ridiculous, I say. Furthermore, for military service, the Arisaka was a better weapon anyway!
clarence said
Is it reasonable to believe the Japanese military would have tolerated the use of any non-standard rifle, EVEN IF there was plenty of ammo available for it? Esp. a rifle incapable of mounting a bayonet, dear to every Jap soldier. Ridiculous, I say. Furthermore, for military service, the Arisaka was a better weapon anyway!
It is amusing to picture a row of Japanese soldiers lined up for inspection, all of them holding their Arisakas, and then there’s this one soldier holding his 1886 Winchester! Talk about marching to the beat of your own drummer. But you’re right. It’s very hard to picture commanding officers tolerating this. However, maybe they were in some sort of remote environment. Lots of different rifles ended up being used in war. I’m thinking of the stories of big-bore British rifles that saw action. Clarence – you’re probably correct about the effectiveness of the ’86 in service – it apparently didn’t serve this Japanese soldier well as he was the one killed.
steve004 said
However, maybe they were in some sort of remote environment. Lots of different rifles ended up being used in war.
Interesting that though it’s claimed there are blood stains on the sleeve (how about some DNA analysis?), such minor details as where & when this amazing incident took place apparently weren’t worth recording.
Have read that Jap soldiers were sometimes short of food, but not of weapons, right up to the end of the war.
Not as interesting as the op story, but I have an 86 used to hunt Beluga whales. It was used by Percy Blatchford, an Alaska Native with a very interesting life story. You can google Percy and find his obituary. He and I were friends in his later years.
Shoot low boys. They're riding Shetland Ponies.
steve004 said
https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/1034/35/antique-winchester-model-1886-lever-action-rifle
Wow – the setting is WWII and you are an American soldier very far from home… and a Japanese soldier is shooting at you with an 1886 .45-70 Winchester… Given he is described to be, “recovering from wounds” … that must mean he wasn’t hit dead center. Amazing. I know, “how much for the rifle and how much for the story?” We each have our opinions but, I think as improbable as it sounds, it just might be true.
DescriptionThe factory letter lists this rifle in .45-70 with an octagon barrel and plain trigger and as received in the warehouse on July 1, 1895, and shipped on February 19, 1896, in order 6434. Also includes a handmade canvas rifle sleeve with addresses for Kenneth Wise on the U.S.S. Benevolence at San Francisco, California and Marvin Verhoef in Holland, Michigan. An included write-up by an unidentified author states that Wise captured the weapon and sleeve from a Japanese soldier during WWII and sent it home to his friend in Michigan while he was on the Benevolence recovering from wounds. It also indicates the rifle remained there for 57 years. The document also states that the included sleeve was also taken off of a Japanese soldier killed by Wise when the man tried to shoot Wise with this rifle (stains attributed as blood). Kenneth Wise (1927-2000) is listed as born and buried in Holland, Michigan. His grave lists him as an seaman first class in the Navy and private first class in the Army.
This old 86 and the story which goes with it, whether true or not, does not personally interest me that much. However, as I read thru the auction flyer from Rock Island what really catches my eye, not that it is new but because I had not pondered it much until recently, is the buyers premium of 18.5% and the sales tax if you happen to live in a state where a sales tax is levied. A couple of years before my old friend Tommy Rholes passed way he told me that auctions were going to ruin Winchester (collectible guns in general) collecting for the average guy. He hated auctions and would not put a gun in an auction. It is kind of ironic that when he died, his wife consigned all his guns to auction (James Julia) where they brought several million dollars. Many of us (or our heirs) will someday have to make a decision on how to liquidate guns – will it be by auction? I am thinking about this because over the last 3 years I have sold quite a few of my Winchesters. I have collector/dealer friends who tell me I sold them too cheap and should have sent them to auction. I feel I have done ok on them because I owned them for a long time but probably could have gotten more at auction. Some have gone to fellow WACA members and if they would have gone to auction they may not have been able to afford them. If you buy a gun at auction and they drop the hammer at $10k then it costs you another $1850 plus the sales tax if applicable. We all know a lot, repeat, a lot of Winchesters are sold at auction which are not right. Buyers are socking these old guns away thinking they are original and correct when many have problems. The auctions are here to stay but like Tommy said, they may not be a good thing. Just hanging around the house on a cold & snowy day, kind of letting my mind drift a little!
Burt Humphrey said
A couple of years before my old friend Tommy Rholes passed way he told me that auctions were going to ruin Winchester (collectible guns in general) collecting for the average guy. He hated auctions…
Not as much as I do! And he was ABSOLUTELY right about the impact on “the average guy.” Not RICH guys, mind you, but “the average guy.”
Kenneth and Marvin lived within a couple of houses of each other on East 25th Street in 1940.
Old Logger said
Not as interesting as the op story, but I have an 86 used to hunt Beluga whales. It was used by Percy Blatchford, an Alaska Native with a very interesting life story. You can google Percy and find his obituary. He and I were friends in his later years.
Old Logger said
Not as interesting as the op story, but I have an 86 used to hunt Beluga whales. It was used by Percy Blatchford, an Alaska Native with a very interesting life story. You can google Percy and find his obituary. He and I were friends in his later years.
Would you happen to know if Percy and Joe (Joesph) the artist were related to one another?
James
jwm94 said
Old Logger said
Not as interesting as the op story, but I have an 86 used to hunt Beluga whales. It was used by Percy Blatchford, an Alaska Native with a very interesting life story. You can google Percy and find his obituary. He and I were friends in his later years.Would you happen to know if Percy and Joe (Joesph) the artist were related to one another?
James
Percy had a brother that lived a few miles down the road from me, but I don’t remember his first name. He is related to Edgar but I’m not sure if that is his brother or son.
Shoot low boys. They're riding Shetland Ponies.
I just read his obit again and he did have a brother, Joe. 17 siblings all told.
Shoot low boys. They're riding Shetland Ponies.
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