Model 1873 with Tang Sight|Page 3|Winchester Rifles|Forum|Winchester Collector

clarence said

steve004 said
  Aside from concerns about some damage to the rifle/sight once it was removed, I had been concerned about what happens once I safely have it off.  Keeping it from being separated too far from the rifle concerned me.

Right you are to be concerned.  Any detachable part removed from any gun is almost certain to be lost somewhere down the line–usually after whoever did the removing croaks, or stops remembering his own name.  It even happens, amazingly, to the bolts of bolt-actions; just a few weeks ago, someone posted a notice that he had inherited a Model 52 with a missing bolt, & I’ve seen or heard of the same thing many times before!  (As for the idiots who’d DO that, store the bolt separately…!)

But removing an original sight in order to facilitate use of a tang sight was not the question that began this thread.  If it had been, I’d have said “don’t be silly, you’re going to pop off a few rounds at the range, leave it where it is.”  

The taking out the bolt thing can be a big deal.  Over the years, I’ve seen many rifles offered for sale without their bolt.  Also, lot of people advertising looking for a bolt.  I’ve never lost a bolt but some of my friends would say I’ve experimented perilously in this area.  My situation had to do with storage.  As we know, one of the nice things about Winchester lever rifles as they fit neatly in a safe and you don’t need extra room for bolt handles.  Fitting bolt guns in a safe is more of a challenge – especially if room is lacking.  So, those rifles that wouldn’t fit in the safe, didn’t go in the safe.  Not having them in the safe made me concerned about theft of course.  I hit on the brilliant idea of taking all the bolts out and locking just the bolts in the safe.  I theorized that a thief wouldn’t steal a rifle without the bolt in it.

According to my collector friends, I had embarked on an unadvisable path.  First, they didn’t buy the notion that a thief wouldn’t steal a rifle without a bolt.  They believed that unless it was some sort of professional thief focused on guns, they wouldn’t be smart enough or pay enough attention to reject a non-bolted rifle.  Second, they expressed great concern about separating all those bolts from those rifles.  That is, if something happened to me, how would those bolts find their way back in?  I mentioned I had a tag attached to each rifle and to each bolt, specifying they belong together.  Their response, “tags can fall off.”  

But the real meat of their disapproval was who would have the expertise to put those bolts back in the rifles?  That might not sound so daunting to experienced rifle-knowledgeable guys.  But, I suspect a minority of guys around this forum would have the knowledge or expertise to put those bolts back in the rifles.  Before you feel offended, let me add I’ve left out an important detail. That detail is that we are mainly talking Ross rifles.  How many of you have put a Ross bolt back into a rifle?  Let me tell you, it takes practice.  It’s a lot like trying to insert a loaded mouse trap into the receiver of a rifle.  The Ross bolt is a complicated machine and God forbid don’t want to out install it incorrectly (as the next guy who shoots it might end up a one-eyed man).  My fellow Ross collectors were particularly disapproving.  How does the story end?  Every Ross rifle here has it’s bolt correctly installed – and will stay that way.

I apologize from drifting very far afield from the post that started this thread.  But I enjoy the winding paths we take – just never know where we’ll end up.  

It does not bother me to have both rear sights as long as the rear barrel sight does not interfere with the peep sight.  Finding an original barrel blank is almost impossible.  The ones you see for sale are reproductions or a broken barrel sight that has been cut down.  Do as you wish but sometimes people get so caught up with details they just can’t make a decision.

As far as loosing parts, this is a problem for all of us.  Inventory your collection.  Keep the small things bagged and tagged.  Put similar items in a larger bag. Make sure your family knows where the inventory list is.  Hard drive, back up hard drive, flash drive, notebooks. That is where my info is.  I did take an early 73 sight off so I wrapped it up and put it in with the cleaning rod.

Dave K. said
This business of missing bolts brought back a memory of the time that I caught a notorious repeat offender deer poacher many more years ago than I care to admit and in the era when game wardens worked alone.

In the early hours after midnight I was sitting in my truck at a hilltop location where I could keep an eye of a big valley below and saw a vehicle slowly approaching with a spotlight shining onto the fields as it moved along. I let it pass on the road and then drove up behind it with my lights off until I got close enough to see a driver and another person seated in the rear of a sedan all the time shining the light from the rear window. I activated the roof lights and the vehicle continued along at the same slow speed for several hundred ysrds before coming to a stop. When I approached the vehicle on the drivers side I  recognized that the man seated  in the rear was a previously convicted poacher, drug dealer and suspected arsonist and murderer. He was cradling a bolt action rifle and there was a spotlight on the seat beside him. After a heated discussion and a demand to open the rear door and pass me the rifle the man finaally complied and I took the rifle from him only to discover that the bolt was missing. I asked him to give me the bolt an the said that he didn’t have it and since the gun was incapable of firing I couldn’t prove that he was poaching. Being alone with the two men and one a rather dangerous fellow I didn’t want to attempt searching the persons or vehicle for the bolt and try keep my eyes on these two at the same time on a lonely back road in the dark. I seized the gun and and gave each of them a mandatory court appearance notice. 

On the day of the trial the poachers showed up with a lawyer who asked me why I  didn’t search for the gun bolt and I explained the reason was safety and also that since the rifle was unencased and the magazine was full of cartridges it would be reasonable to assume the bolt was either on the person , hidden in the car or had been tossed  as the vehicle was slowly moving and therefore unnecessary. Had I conducted a thorough search and didn’t find the bolt it would have reinforced the defence argument that it wasn’t present at the time the vehcle was stopped. 

The judge was sympathetic and agreed that it was beyond a reasonable doubt that given the facts of the case the previously convicted poacher would not have left the bolt behind  especially since the vehicle had been seen driving along with a light out the window at slow speed and the gun contained cartridges. Given the safety concerns I had in being alone and without back up it would have been unwise for me to conduct a search. The two were found guilty and the gun was forfeited as well as receiving a hefty fine. The poacher now had a rifle bolt as a souvenir.   

Dave – that’s a great story.  Thanks for sharing.

clarence said

Yes, that’s a good plan, about all anyone can do, but still depends on someone else putting Humpty Dumpty back together again when you aren’t around.  You’ve never heard of a widow or child who simply called a dealer or auctioneer to “take all this stuff” off their hands?  An intelligent dealer might try to make things right, but the auctioneers, seldom, so you hear of the accessories & shooting kits of high-grade target rifles being broken into separate lots to increase the rake-off.  

I have introduced my wife to 2 auction house owners.  She knows what to do.  They will come to the house and go over everything.  They make an inventory and set an estimated price.  Now the biggest problem will be to use my inventory lists to find all the items.

How many of you have your collection insured?