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5 made and $5k would be fine by me. 5 made falls into the rare category and not scarce. Lettered 21″ barrel with honest wear and no major issues… at a gun show, here’s your money.
Rick C
RickC said
5 made and $5k would be fine by me. 5 made falls into the rare category and not scarce. Lettered 21″ barrel with honest wear and no major issues… at a gun show, here’s your money.
Let’s remember this one had a final bid price of $2,640 (which was within the estimate range) less than a year ago:
https://auctions.morphyauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?inventoryid=512250
Steve I guess it’s the 5 made and also a 21” lettered bl that catches my interest. The other one(common 20” barrel on many models & carbines), just doesn’t have the same desire for me. Jmo
Rick C
steve004 said
RickC said
5 made and $5k would be fine by me. 5 made falls into the rare category and not scarce. Lettered 21″ barrel with honest wear and no major issues… at a gun show, here’s your money.
Let’s remember this one had a final bid price of $2,640 (which was within the estimate range) less than a year ago:
https://auctions.morphyauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?inventoryid=512250
Ah… I see what I missed. The one above, “appears” to be a factory short rifle (it doesn’t letter). The final price makes more sense now.
that would be what this 15/16th”, straight octagon barrel , 45-90 Sharps Straight, 21″ Oval proofed barrel was a Short Rifle special order until they realized you could hurt yourself using 45-90 WCF..-changed the Special order.
to 45-90 WCF.
Oval W P thanks why it was in the white from the factory when i got it. can’t sell it because of the same reason Winchester decided to change caliber. hurt themselves, i load my own
45-90 SS- 230 gr .45 ACP plated lead bullet, .451. – and 300 gr plated lead .452. Risky selling it to anyone but a reloader..
45-90 Sharps Straight reloads – the 300 gr is on the left-230 gr .45 ACP plated hollowpoint. 40 gr -4198 –300 gr — 44 gr in 230 gr.HP –Cream of wheat for filler. heavy crimp. .22 Hornet for comparison.
Lost track of the count on these unique rifles. So have we accounted for all 5 Documented 21″ short rifles? If so that would something!!!
Is this George Madis’s data? If so, I wouldn’t be surprised if, in time, 10 or 15 of the original 5 with a 21” barrel length are accounted for. George’s data is notoriously sketchy.
mrcvs said
Is this George Madis’s data? If so, I wouldn’t be surprised if, in time, 10 or 15 of the original 5 with a 21” barrel length are accounted for. George’s data is notoriously sketchy.
Well no dis respect to him, but I have heard that…… But in Madl’s research he shows only 5. Seems he is the master.
I don’t have John Madl’s 1886 book handy but he would be the gospel on 86‘s & numbers.
Rick C
RickC said
I don’t have John Madl’s 1886 book handy but he would be the gospel on 86‘s & numbers.
Rick I just checked the Madl books, I have both and he has listed 5 21″ barrels. Of course I have to believe these are the lettered ones only .
oldcrankyyankee said
RickC said
I don’t have John Madl’s 1886 book handy but he would be the gospel on 86‘s & numbers.
Rick I just checked the Madl books, I have both and he has listed 5 21″ barrels. Of course I have to believe these are the lettered ones only .
It’s been about 3yrs since I corresponded with John but I believe he spent time at Cody doing research so this is where the 5 lettered 21” barrels would come from.
Rick C
If it’s John Madl’s data, then it’s likely correct. Amazing that the whereabouts of all 5 are known.
Not sure if the whereabouts of the 5 are known, just that the Cody records confirm only 5 were made with 21” barrels. It might be the only surviving one remaining but I would think Cody records would know if any inquiries for factory letter or a search for any other 21” bl was ever requested.
Rick C
there is a great possibility that more than 5 were made. I would think the 5 are ones visible as recorded so in factory ledgers. let’s not forget about the possibility of a return and repair which would possibly not state the barrel length. this would only be brought to light when the gun surfaces and is inspected. also there is a good chance one or more could pop up in the 140,000-150799 & 156600-160000 serial ranges where the records are lost.
Jeremy Scott.
WACA LIFE MEMBER, CFM MEMBER, ABKA MEMBER, JSSC MEMBER, MNO HISTORIAN
Online
JEREMY S. said
there is a great possibility that more than 5 were made. I would think the 5 are ones visible as recorded so in factory ledgers. let’s not forget about the possibility of a return and repair which would possibly not state the barrel length. this would only be brought to light when the gun surfaces and is inspected. also there is a good chance one or more could pop up in the 140,000-150799 & 156600-160000 serial ranges where the records are lost.
None have been found thus far, but we have only documented (surveyed) 564 of the 8,200 in the 146000-150799 and 156600-160000 serial range. We did find (1) rifle S/N 152228 with a 21″ barrel. It is a Fancy Sporting Take Down rifle, 33 WCF, 3X stocks D-carved, factory engraved (Ulrich).
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
JEREMY S. said
there is a great possibility that more than 5 were made. I would think the 5 are ones visible as recorded so in factory ledgers. let’s not forget about the possibility of a return and repair which would possibly not state the barrel length. this would only be brought to light when the gun surfaces and is inspected. also there is a good chance one or more could pop up in the 140,000-150799 & 156600-160000 serial ranges where the records are lost.
None have been found thus far, but we have only documented (surveyed) 564 of the 8,200 in the 146000-150799 and 156600-160000 serial range. We did find (1) rifle S/N 152228 with a 21″ barrel. It is a Fancy Sporting Take Down rifle, 33 WCF, 3X stocks D-carved, factory engraved (Ulrich).
Bert
I’d sure like to see that one!
steve004 said
Bert H. said
JEREMY S. said
there is a great possibility that more than 5 were made. I would think the 5 are ones visible as recorded so in factory ledgers. let’s not forget about the possibility of a return and repair which would possibly not state the barrel length. this would only be brought to light when the gun surfaces and is inspected. also there is a good chance one or more could pop up in the 140,000-150799 & 156600-160000 serial ranges where the records are lost.
None have been found thus far, but we have only documented (surveyed) 564 of the 8,200 in the 146000-150799 and 156600-160000 serial range. We did find (1) rifle S/N 152228 with a 21″ barrel. It is a Fancy Sporting Take Down rifle, 33 WCF, 3X stocks D-carved, factory engraved (Ulrich).
Bert
I’d sure like to see that one!
Thank you for sharing those findings Bert. I too would like to see that 33 cal ulrich engraved with D carved stocks…
Jeremy Scott.
WACA LIFE MEMBER, CFM MEMBER, ABKA MEMBER, JSSC MEMBER, MNO HISTORIAN
JEREMY S. said
steve004 said
Bert H. said
JEREMY S. said
there is a great possibility that more than 5 were made. I would think the 5 are ones visible as recorded so in factory ledgers. let’s not forget about the possibility of a return and repair which would possibly not state the barrel length. this would only be brought to light when the gun surfaces and is inspected. also there is a good chance one or more could pop up in the 140,000-150799 & 156600-160000 serial ranges where the records are lost.
None have been found thus far, but we have only documented (surveyed) 564 of the 8,200 in the 146000-150799 and 156600-160000 serial range. We did find (1) rifle S/N 152228 with a 21″ barrel. It is a Fancy Sporting Take Down rifle, 33 WCF, 3X stocks D-carved, factory engraved (Ulrich).
Bert
I’d sure like to see that one!
Thank you for sharing those findings Bert. I too would like to see that 33 cal ulrich engraved with D carved stocks…
Wouldn”t we all. The D carving is probably the rarest feature on the gun!
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