Avatar
Please consider registering
Guest
Search
Forum Scope




Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
Register Lost password?
sp_Feed sp_PrintTopic sp_TopicIcon
looks like de'ja'vu agian
sp_NewTopic Add Topic
Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 542
Member Since:
February 17, 2022
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1
October 23, 2022 - 11:56 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Just noticed that Morphy has a rare 86 short rifle with a documented 21″ barrel, one of 5 made. Got me thinking, hmmmm, I saw one just like it not to far back. Did a little poking around and sure enough the same gun sold at RIA last September. sold with the juice for $8625. Morphy’s estimate is 6-8k. Not sure that current owner is going to make out on this one. 

Avatar
Wisconsin
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4269
Member Since:
May 2, 2009
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online
2
October 24, 2022 - 12:42 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

It probably didn’t sell at RIA

Bob

WACA Life Member---
NRA Life Member----
Cody Firearms member since 1991
Researching the Winchester 1873's

73_86cutaway.jpg

Email: [email protected]

Avatar
NY
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 6168
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online
3
October 24, 2022 - 1:02 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

oldcrankyyankee said Not sure that current owner is going to make out on this one. 
  

Yes, so sad to think a speculator may take a loss; my heart aches.

Avatar
Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4889
Member Since:
November 7, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
4
October 24, 2022 - 4:00 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

clarence said

oldcrankyyankee said Not sure that current owner is going to make out on this one. 

  

Yes, so sad to think a speculator may take a loss; my heart aches.

  

The main reason I’m able to chase old Winchesters is because I’ve had some success investing/speculating. I’ve also lost a fair bit at times, it’s a risk we take.

 

Mike

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
Avatar
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 262
Member Since:
November 17, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
5
October 24, 2022 - 11:32 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost

Was the rifle created from scratch or did Winchester cut down an existing gun? I have seen guns made using both methods on guns Winchester sold as brand new. 

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 542
Member Since:
February 17, 2022
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
6
October 24, 2022 - 9:07 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

1873man said
It probably didn’t sell at RIA

Bob

  

It does show as being sold in the realized price list. But that doesn’t mean the the consignor didn’t up bid it because it wasn’t going for what he wanted, not the first time I have seen that happen. Happens alot in the heavy equipment actions. Just gives the action house the money they want and makes the balance sheet look better for advertising purposes, WooHoo!!! We sold this much stuff they can say even when the items never change hands.

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4108
Member Since:
November 19, 2006
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
7
October 24, 2022 - 10:25 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Here’s a link to the RIA auction:

This is #57421, 40-82 21 inch (past sale):

https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/83/1011/documented-special-order-winchester-model-1886-short-rifle

 

The upcoming Morphy auction link:

https://auctions.morphyauctions.com/_A__RARE_WINCHESTER_MODEL_1886_LEVER_ACTION_SHORT_-LOT535801.aspx

 

I thought somewhere, I had spotted #58590 that was another 21 inch .40-82.  I think it was a past sale from a big auction house, but now I can’t find it.  Anyone else see it?

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 542
Member Since:
February 17, 2022
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
8
October 24, 2022 - 11:15 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Steve, do you think it’s worth the estimate? Not super interested in it at this point in time as im eye balling some other stuff coming up, but never know. It letters correctly. Could be a nice addition to a small collection of 86’s

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4108
Member Since:
November 19, 2006
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
9
October 24, 2022 - 11:24 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Given the condition, I’m skeptical it’s worth the estimate.  I suppose the lower end of the estimate might be reasonable.  Of course, given it’s a big house auction with deep pocket bidders, anything can happen.  For me, an item selling higher at a big house auction (or a gunbroker auction) does not establish what something is worth.

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 542
Member Since:
February 17, 2022
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
10
October 24, 2022 - 11:35 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

So true. I don’t think it’s worth the price for all the same reasons. To me the 6-8k has proven some what off base, as if it was a legit price a year ago why sell now for same-same? As a wise man once said” figure what you would pay for it, then subtract a 1/3.

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4108
Member Since:
November 19, 2006
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
11
October 24, 2022 - 11:47 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

On the topic of 21 inch barreled M1886 short rifles, Madis shows one from the Lew Yearout collection (octagon barrel, full magazine) on page 322 of The Winchester Book.  The serial number is 52581.

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1672
Member Since:
September 22, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
12
October 24, 2022 - 11:53 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

I get it that this is certainly a rare rifle with a 21” barrel length.  But, the condition isn’t there.

I wouldn’t want to be into this one any more than 5k, and even that might be a stretch.  5k means at my doorstep, including any buyer’s premium, sales tax, and shipping.  Even that might be a stretch.

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 542
Member Since:
February 17, 2022
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
13
October 25, 2022 - 12:01 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

As I look in the Madis book I also see number 68403, as I would call it, a semi deluxe with a 21″ round barrel, from the Frank Barrigan collection. Guess we’ve identified 3 of the 5 so far?!! 

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 542
Member Since:
February 17, 2022
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
14
October 25, 2022 - 12:08 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

mrcvs said
I get it that this is certainly a rare rifle with a 21” barrel length.  But, the condition isn’t there.

I wouldn’t want to be into this one any more than 5k, and even that might be a stretch.  5k means at my doorstep, including any buyer’s premium, sales tax, and shipping.  Even that might be a stretch.

  

Couldn’t agree more. simply put we have just identified three of these 21″ short rifles known to be in existence.  

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4108
Member Since:
November 19, 2006
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
15
October 25, 2022 - 12:19 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

And further on the topic of .40-82 caliber 21 inch short rifles, Madis has another one in The Winchester Book.  This is on page 329 in my edition but I understand it is on page 288 in a different edition.  This rifle was from the Frank Barrigan collection and has a round barrel with full magazine.  Other features included the Lyman No. 21 receiver sight, swivel eyelets, and pistol grip stock with SGB.  In George’s description below the rifle, he doesn’t state the chambering nor does he state it had a heavy barrel.  However, I am familiar with this rifle and lusted after it plenty in 1984.  A dealer I knew in eastern North Dakota had it.  It was indeed in .40-82 and it had a heavy barrel (measuring 7/8th inch across the muzzle).  $2250 was the price.  Doesn’t seem like much now!

Interestingly, he also had another .40-82 short rifle.  This one had a 22 inch full round barrel, full magazine, pistol grip stock, shotgun butt and what really got me revved up was the fact that it has an even heavier barrel (one inch across the muzzle) along with a saddle ring.  The price?  $2250. 

Also in this small collection he purchased, there was a 36 inch barreled rifle, a line through gun, and a deluxe .38-56  short rifle (24 inch half octagon barrel) , tang sight with windage and elevation, spirit level in read sight slot, factory swivels and a Cody letter with the following notation:  “Shipped with Deluxe buttstock.”  It a in very nice shape with a whole lot of finish.  The price?  $1500.  

Sigh.

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 542
Member Since:
February 17, 2022
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
16
October 25, 2022 - 12:31 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Steve I am some what confused, shocker. Are saying there were 5 21′ short rifles in 40-82? i was believing that according to Madl only 5 21″ short rifles were made in total.

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4108
Member Since:
November 19, 2006
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
17
October 25, 2022 - 2:10 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

I don’t think we know all five of the 21 inchers were .40-82’s… yet.

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4108
Member Since:
November 19, 2006
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
18
October 25, 2022 - 5:32 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

steve004 said
Here’s a link to the RIA auction:

This is #57421, 40-82 21 inch (past sale):

https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/83/1011/documented-special-order-winchester-model-1886-short-rifle

 

The upcoming Morphy auction link:

https://auctions.morphyauctions.com/_A__RARE_WINCHESTER_MODEL_1886_LEVER_ACTION_SHORT_-LOT535801.aspx

 

I thought somewhere, I had spotted #58590 that was another 21 inch .40-82.  I think it was a past sale from a big auction house, but now I can’t find it.  Anyone else see it?

steve004 said
Here’s a link to the RIA auction:

This is #57421, 40-82 21 inch (past sale):

https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/83/1011/documented-special-order-winchester-model-1886-short-rifle

 

The upcoming Morphy auction link:

https://auctions.morphyauctions.com/_A__RARE_WINCHESTER_MODEL_1886_LEVER_ACTION_SHORT_-LOT535801.aspx

 

I thought somewhere, I had spotted #58590 that was another 21 inch .40-82.  I think it was a past sale from a big auction house, but now I can’t find it.  Anyone else see it?

  

Here is #58590:

https://auctions.morphyauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?inventoryid=512250

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4108
Member Since:
November 19, 2006
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
19
October 25, 2022 - 5:38 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

So, it looks like we’ve identified four of the five M1886 21 inch barreled short rifles.  All four were .40-82’s.  Interesting.

Avatar
Taos NM
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 226
Member Since:
October 29, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
20
October 25, 2022 - 6:34 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Not worth more than 4000.00 to me…………

Forum Timezone: UTC 0
Most Users Ever Online: 778
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
clarence: 6167
TXGunNut: 4889
Chuck: 4528
1873man: 4268
steve004: 4108
Big Larry: 2297
twobit: 2284
TR: 1698
mrcvs: 1671
Forum Stats:
Groups: 1
Forums: 17
Topics: 12527
Posts: 108814

 

Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 1731
Members: 8737
Moderators: 4
Admins: 3
Navigation