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rogertherelic said
Got it! Thank you. So much to learn. Now I am old enough that I am starting to not remember things that I should remember!
Roger,
When you have to start checking the label in your skivvies to remember your name (like Tim & I do), you will know it is bad.
Bert (a.k.a. BVD)
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Blue Ridge Parson said
I tried that, but now I think I must be Calvin Klein.BRP
Tim usually answers to “Fruit”. I (depending on what day of the week it is, I will reply to “Hanes” or “BVD”.
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Thanks again for “all” the info. I found some buttplate images on the online Renneberg book page 214. The reproduction is a “pretty close”copy of the original. 
Paul H said
Thanks again for “all” the info. I found some buttplate images on the online Renneberg book page 214. The reproduction is a “pretty close”copy of the original.
The butt plate on the far right of the pictures you posted is a repro.
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Ok thanks Bert that solves the dilemma. I was assuming Renneberg’s research was working with OEM stuff.
If this rifle has survived since 1913 with only the buttplate being replaced it’s had a pretty good 112 year run.
I bought it off Gunbroker several months ago shipped out of Florida and it arrived in Oregon at the FFL totally disassembled— 
rattling around in a poorly packed box.
In a Discussion for another day:
We could try to make a “LAME” case for these short barreled Takedowns being “Takedown Carbines”.
Thanks again for all the input.
Paul,
Winchester did not ever manufacture any Take Down Carbines… strictly rifles only.
Like I mentioned, the hard rubber butt plates were prone to breaking with careless handling (dropping the gun on its butt).
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Hi guys,
Busy shredding cedar trees at the ranch but thankful for cool weather to do it in. Talk about hard work!!
The butt plate on the Op’s rifle is the style used on the Mode 61 .22 Rifles after approximately SN 261000 in mid 1958. I am not sure I would call it a reproduction but rather a late replacement.
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
Good morning,
Here is the identical butt plate on a 1914 vintage special order 1892 carbine. No sling ring, 2/3rd length magazine. IT SURE looks original to the gun. Age and wear are consistent all across the rifle.
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
twobit said
Good morning,Here is the identical butt plate on a 1914 vintage special order 1892 carbine. No sling ring, 2/3rd length magazine. IT SURE looks original to the gun. Age and wear are consistent all across the rifle.
Michael
Interesting… All of the Model 1894 rifles & carbines that I have documented with the fluted comb butt stock and hard rubber butt plate through the early 1930s have the smooth outer border. Additionally, the change from having a widows peak versus not having a widows peak took place in September 1915 (based on current survey results).
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Here’s a 94 carbine #881226 1918 without saddle ring and fluted stock with same plate, I have seen it on others
Bert H. said
twobit said
Good morning,
Here is the identical butt plate on a 1914 vintage special order 1892 carbine. No sling ring, 2/3rd length magazine. IT SURE looks original to the gun. Age and wear are consistent all across the rifle.
Michael
Interesting… All of the Model 1894 rifles & carbines that I have documented with the fluted comb butt stock and hard rubber butt plate through the early 1930s have the smooth outer border. Additionally, the change from having a widows peak versus not having a widows peak took place in September 1915 (based on current survey results).
Bert
Bert,
I looked through my images of fluted comb shotgun butt Model 1892’s. The earliest examples start on rifles serialized in 1911. They all are fitted with a non widows peak black rubber butt plate without a border. Starting in 1920 there is a switch to a smooth steel butt plate.
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
cj57 said
Here’s a 94 carbine #881226 1918 without saddle ring and fluted stock with same plate, I have seen it on others
The fit at the toe looks very poor on this one. Looks like a replacement to me. Maybe evident by the turned screws as well.
Don
deerhunter said
cj57 said
Here’s a 94 carbine #881226 1918 without saddle ring and fluted stock with same plate, I have seen it on others
The fit at the toe looks very poor on this one. Looks like a replacement to me.
Don
Don,
I concur… that it not the original butt plate on that Model 1894. The fit at the toe is atrociously poor!
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
twobit said
twobit said
Good morning,
Here is the identical butt plate on a 1914 vintage special order 1892 carbine. No sling ring, 2/3rd length magazine. IT SURE looks original to the gun. Age and wear are consistent all across the rifle.
Michael
Interesting… All of the Model 1894 rifles & carbines that I have documented with the fluted comb butt stock and hard rubber butt plate through the early 1930s have the smooth outer border. Additionally, the change from having a widows peak versus not having a widows peak took place in September 1915 (based on current survey results).
Bert
Bert,
I looked through my images of fluted comb shotgun butt Model 1892’s. The earliest examples start on rifles serialized in 1911. They all are fitted with a non widows peak black rubber butt plate without a border. Starting in 1920 there is a switch to a smooth steel butt plate.
Michael
It is interesting to compare the Model 1892 and Model 1894, and it is definitely somewhat surprising that they differed so much in the production characteristics.
Winchester used the smooth steel shotgun butt plates on the Model 1894 as early as 1895, and added the checkered steel shogun butt plate in the early 1900s. At the same time, a black hard rubber shotgun butt plate could also be ordered & installed. For a significant period of time, any one of the three types of shotgun butt plates could have been special ordered & installed on the Model 1894. In the early 1920s, a fourth style (the serrated steel plate that was standard on the Models 53, 54, and 55) could and was used on special order for the Model 94. Eventually, it became the standard butt plate in the late 1930s. I have confirmed shotgun butt plates with the widows peak well into the year 1914.
Thus far, I have documented nearly (900) Model 1894s in the May 1907 to December 1931 timeframe that were special ordered with shotgun butts. The table below documents the types and percentage for each.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
It is interesting to compare the Model 1892 and Model 1894, and it is definitely somewhat surprising that they differed so much in the production characteristics.\
Winchester appears to have been a study in inconsistency within it’s production lines with little or no need/desire/or perceived benefit from consistency across the different models. We have briefly discussed the large difference in the time span between the 1892 and 1894 use of the widow’s peak hammer. I wouldn’t be surprised that the style and timing of the various barrel address stamps and tang stamps is just as crazy.
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
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