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Hello out there in “The Land of the Free”. At least for now in Arizona it still is. Anyway here’s my question to all. I’ve but one Winchester Model 1876. Manufactured around 1883-84. It is a British Proofed, 22″ Short rifle in 40-60WCF. It was used in India and possibly Africa also, as far as I was able to find out. (not sure about Africa) It was a gift from Father to Son, a Hunter. We all know that many of these Winchester 1876’s that were British Proofed and used in the “Colonies” were 50 Express caliber. I was wondering why would a professional hunter carry one of the weaker caliber firearms in places where he might run into dangerous game? Or is the 40-60WCF more potent than one would think? Would appreciate some thought on the matter.
Thanks, Apache 
Apache,
Sounds like a neat rifle! Now to the crux. I would not personally subscribe the .40-60 with great “killing power” if any such measure can be taken. On a personal experience level, the lead bullet does not carry enough energy to reliably fell the ram size metallic silhouette. How directly that relates to the ability to kill flesh and blood? Not sure. I would feel very comfortable with it against whitetails within 100 to 150 yards, were we able to do so in my state (which we aren’t), as no doubt the bullet will have enough penetration on thin skinned game. I should imagine it was originally purchased for use on smaller, thin skinned game rather than any dangerous game, and maybe was used originally by a YOUNG son who may not have had the stature for the 50 Express.
If you have nothing else in your hands and are attacked, then it is the weapon of choice at the moment! Bears have been killed with .22 shorts! NOT normally advised, though. Still in Arizona, the black bears would likely succumb to the .40-60, but maybe not quickly enough. Javelina and the coues whitetail for sure! My two cents worth!
Tim
Apache:
All the cartridges fired by Winchester’s toggle link Model 1876 were relatively weak, hence the development and introduction of the Model 1886. Of the 1876 caliber offerings, the 40-60 is the weakest. The original factory load for the 40-60 fired a 210 grain lead bullet at 1562 fps and had a muzzle energy of 1138 flbs. By comparison, the 45-70 Government round used a 405 grain lead bullet at 1361 fps and had a muzzle energy of 1665 flbs.
Both rounds have very similar arched ballistics so neither would have an advantage in accuracy.
I haven’t used either for hunting, and certainly not for African big game hunting, so I can’t address that part of your question.
All this having been said, my favorite Winchester in my collection is a Model 1876 made in 1885 in caliber 40-60 (pictured below) and it is a tack driver at 100 yards.
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
Folks,
Some years ago, John Hawke (or was it just Hawk?) used to attend the Cody show. He was a Cody resident and research assistant at the museum. Anyway, he was partial to the 1876 and would rebuild and shoot them a lot. His favorite seemed to be the .40-60 and he had shot antelope and mule deer with it. He took elk as well, with one of his 1876’s, but don’t recall if that was only the .45-75 or if it also was the .40-60. He considered his .40-60 as more accurate at longer ranges. He used tang sights on his rifles, and not the vee notched barrel sights much.
All that being said, if you will refer to the book on the 1876 by Herb Houze, many of the rifles that were initially barreled in .40-60 were subsequently rebarreled to either .45-60 or .45-75 as even in its day the .40-60 was considered too mild for many in the west. I have a saddle ring carbine that started life as a .40-60, was shipped to a dealer and promptly returned to be rebarreled to .45-75 before it was then returned to the dealer and sold. I would say that is a “user’s statement” on the issue. Still thin skinned, non dangerous game no doubt would be dispatched at reasonable ranges.
Tim
I sort of figured that a rifle in this caliber would only be used to hunt animals for “the pot”. Of course, I’d be scared s——s if I happened to run into a Tiger and only had this 40-60 with me. I guess in that case I’d end up in the tiger’s pot.
Apache
Was looking through excerpts I copied from one of my Winchester Catalog (might be the 1905 catalog) and found this information regarding the 40-60 cartridge, however the cartridge information below is for the Single Shot model (would assume they would be the same for the 1876 cartridges):
40/60 Winchester, 210 grn bullet, velocity at 50 ft 1475 ft/sec, Energy of bullet at 50 ft 1014 ft/lbs, penetration (7/8″ Pine board) at 9.5″
45/60 Winchester, 300 grn bullet, velocity at 50 ft 1271 ft/sec, Energy of bullet at 50 ft 1075 ft/lbs, penetration (7/8″ Pine board) at 11.5″
45/75 Winchester, 350 grn bullet, velocity at 50 ft 1343 ft/sec, Energy of bullet at 50 ft 1401 ft/lbs, penetration (7/8″ Pine board) at 14.5″
1892takedown @sbcglobal.net ......NRA Endowment Life Member.....WACA Member
"God is great.....beer is good.....and people are crazy"... Billy Currington
Chris,
I believe that the listed cartridge specs in the catalog apply to the cartridge and not the rifle.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Right. Dont know why I was thinking they would be any different.
1892takedown @sbcglobal.net ......NRA Endowment Life Member.....WACA Member
"God is great.....beer is good.....and people are crazy"... Billy Currington
Quoted from Mike Venturino with no ballistics data provided: “Last cartridge introduced for the ’76 Winchester was a remarkably stupid idea. The Winchester engineers went back to the .45-60 WCF and squeezed it down to take a 210-grain, .40-caliber bullet over only 60 grains of powder. The .40-60 WCF has to hold a record for being the weakest cartridge chambered in the heaviest rifle.”
Perhaps so for hunting but still one of my favorites for target shooting.
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
Bert,
Thanks for making me go back and look at the sheet again–I made an error above regarding the board penetration. I also included the 50/95 in the comparison. It should read as follows:
40/60 Winchester, 210 grn bullet, Velocity at 50′ 1475 ft/sec, Bullet Energy at 50′ 1014 ft/lbs, Penetration of 7/8′ pine board = 9.5 boards, Recoil 6.94 ft/lbs.
45/60 Winchester, 300 grn bullet, Velocity at 50′ 1271 ft/sec, Bullet Energy at 50′ 1075 ft/lbs, Penetration of 7/8″ pine board = 11.5 boards, Recoil 9.28 ft/lbs.
45/75 Winchester, 350 grn bullet, Velocity at 50′ 1343 ft/sec, Bullet Energy at 50′ 1401 ft/lbs, Penetration of 7/8″ pine board = 14.5 boards, Recoil 13.61ft/lbs.
50/95 Winchester, 300 grn bullet, Velocity at 50′ 1493 ft/sec, Bullet Energy at 50′ 1484 ft/lbs, Penetration of 7/8″ pine board = 10 boards, Recoil 17.48 ft/lbs.
Just thought they were some cool stats to see how they stacked up against each other. Definitely bigger is better for large game but shot placement is the key.
1892takedown @sbcglobal.net ......NRA Endowment Life Member.....WACA Member
"God is great.....beer is good.....and people are crazy"... Billy Currington
Hey all;
Does this information mean that if hunting for the “Pot” in India in 1884, if I ran into a 400 pound Bengal Tiger looking for his dinner, and all I have is my Winchester 1876 chambered in 40-60WCF I’m CAT FOOD? Damn!! I knew I should have brought my Holland & Holland 500 Nitro Express.
Apache
Chris
Thanks for postinting interesting info
“50/95 Winchester, 300 grn bullet, Velocity at 50′ 1493 ft/sec, Bullet Energy at 50′ 1484 ft/lbs, Penetration of 7/8″ pine board = 10 boards, Recoil 17.48 ft/lbs.”
Due to the recoil #, I have removed this Cal from my wish list and probably 45-75 too
I would rather be shooting 40-60 . I never have shot one ,but am imagining . I like 45-60 in my 76 .
Wish my 86 in 40-82 was this reduced capacity size for my paper punching. Not that this cal is punishing by any stretch, but the large capacity cases are more challanging to get good loads with smokeless (yes I know the designs were for Black) I am a bit of a dinasauer, but somehow never was attracted to BP ?
Phil
Phil,
The 50-95 Express is a pussycat to shoot… at least it is in my high-wall (the top rifle in my signature picture).
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert
Ok , but I may be more of a wimp than you.,
I know the heavier the gun the better. The 45-60 was a pleasant surprise in my heavy 76 OBR
Cheers
Phil
Don’t forget that the 40-60 is significantly more powerful than the 44 WCF, which took an enormous amount of game. If we grant that the bullets of both were roughly the same weight, the muzzle velocity of the 44-40 was around 1,300 fps and the velocity at the muzzle for the 40-60 was around 1,500 fps. I shot a 200 pound Whitetail deer at 40 yards with a 44 WCF loaded to original ballistics. The bullet went right through, broadside.
For comparison
44/40 Win having 5.42 ft/lbs recoil with BP and 3.93 with Smokeless
38/55 having 8.41 ft/lbs recoil with BP and 5.96 with Smokeless
45/70/350 having 14.57 ft/lbs recoil with BP and 10.28 with Smokeless
50/110/450 having 25.17 ft/lbs recoil with BP and 21.53 with Smokeless
1892takedown @sbcglobal.net ......NRA Endowment Life Member.....WACA Member
"God is great.....beer is good.....and people are crazy"... Billy Currington
Chris
Do you have specs for 32-20 , 38-40 , 32-40 ? my current favorites. By these choices ., you know I like light recoil, but what great cals for paper
Thanks
Phil
Phil,
Some of the information isnt provided but this is what I have.
32 Winchester: 115 grn bullet, Velocity 1177 ft/sec @ 50′, Energy at 50′ 352 ft/lbs, Lead bullet board penetration 6.5 boards, soft point 6.5 boards, Recoil Smokeless 1.11 ft/lbs, BP 1.24 ft/lbs.
32 W.H.V: 115 grn bullet, Velocity 1575 ft/sec @ 50′, Energy at 50′ 633 ft/lbs, Soft point board penetration 7 boards (lead not listed), Recoil Smokeless 2.66 ft/lbs
38 Winchester: 180 grn bullet, Velocity 1268 ft/sec @ 50′, Energy at 50′ 644 ft/lbs, Lead bullet board penetration 7.5 boards, 10 boards soft point, Recoil smokeless 3.20 ft/lbs, recoil BP 4.69 ft/lbs.
38-40 W.H.V: 180 grn bullet, Velocity 1700 ft/sec @ 50′, Energy at 50′ 1154 ft/lbs, Soft point board penetration 10 boards, Recoil smokeless 6.67 ft/lbs
32-40: 165 grn bullet, Velocity 1385 ft/sec @ 50′, Energy at 50′ 702 ft/lbs, Lead bullet board penetration 8.5 boards, 8.5 boards soft point, Recoil smokeless 3.08 ft/lbs, recoil BP 4.13 ft/lbs.
32-40 W.H.V: 165 grn bullet, Velocity 1700 ft/sec @ 50′, Energy at 50′ 1058 ft/lbs, 10 boards soft point, Recoil smokeless 5.45 ft/lbs
1892takedown @sbcglobal.net ......NRA Endowment Life Member.....WACA Member
"God is great.....beer is good.....and people are crazy"... Billy Currington
Chris
That what I wanted to see. The HV loads are a bonus. I like the #’s , that s even a little milder than I would have guessed. The HV loads sound a bit peppy, reminding why they were discontinued in case of being used in revolvers and weak action guns but would be an advantage in 92’s and 94’s
No wonder I like these cartridges , easy to reload , with good components available , especially cast bullets, and work well with the powders I like to use. all the brass is easy to come by here
Phil
Hi Apache that 22″ 76 sounds like a very nice rifle and a rare one to boot! I also have a 22″ 76 OBR in 40/60wcf. It’s a very accurate cartridge in my rifle and I only shoot Bp. loads in the 40/60wcf. It has accounted for many wild boar and deer and coyote javelina ect. Even on the biggest boars it was plenty enogh for the task. Now it would not be my first choice for Lions ,Tigers and Bear. Think the 45/75 or 50/95 would be much better for that type work. I am a 45/75wcf fan of all four 76 calibers I think it is the best. With that said I must say the 40/60wcf is the one I engoy the most for just shooting at the range . It is mild compared to the 45/75 and a bit more stingy on powder and lead. To top it off it is very easy to get good groups @ 100yd and 200yd with the Lyman tang sight combined with the Lyman # 4 hunters front. I think that is the number for it. It is the one that looks like a half rounf with the tiny Ivory bead in it . If you decide to load some Ammo for your old rifle and shoot it, BACO has brass and the correct 210gr. bullets and dies. I would be glad to help you in any way I can if you decide to get the old girl shooting. Guess you could say I am a 40/60 fan also. My Best ,,,DT
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