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I have been buying some nice Winchesters lately, but not the real high condition guns I have been looking for. Now please, lets not discuss the seller, just the gun. This guy has great guns for sale right now. Where he gets them no one seems to know. But I can not find guns like this anywhere. I am interested in this, and some others he has. Finding guns with this finish is rare. Major auctions are a wait, high fees and shipping, and from reports have some problems. This gun and some others he has for sale are ready to buy right now. This gun looks great, any obvious problems? https://www.gunbroker.com/item/753414990
The sellers name says it all.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
I get it, you hate the guy. So, any problems with the gun? He shows plenty of pictures to critique. Guns like he is selling are just not available elsewhere, and I am a buyer.
How do you know it is not a restored gun? I don’t buy guns that I can’t pick up and look at. I don’t buy letters or stories either. Many guns out there that were restored to a letter. I am not saying it is restored but buyer beware.
cwachter said
How do you know it is not a restored gun? I don’t buy guns that I can’t pick up and look at. I don’t buy letters or stories either. Many guns out there that were restored to a letter. I am not saying it is restored but buyer beware.
Where are you going to go to today where you can pick up and look at a gun like this? Your local gun store? That is why I am asking opinions of this gun. If I buy from Gangel, Julia or RIA I have to rely on the catalog info. Even in person at a major auction you can not do a thorough inspection, and with all the commotion at an auction viewing a quality restoration can be missed. Guys here have discussed the non original guns sold at major auctions. That is why I am asking if anyone sees anything suspect in the 75 pictures shown of this gun. I wish I could have posted the pictures without showing the guys auction so I could get some honest opinions.
Why would you want to do business with someone who is known to peddle suspicious firearms.
A few things stick out here. I question the for end cap as the interface between it and the barrel looks suspicious.
The colouration of both sideplates, especially the left one, relative to the frame looks questable. Likewise, the colouration of the dust cover seems suspicious relative to the rest of the firearm and its overall condition.
I would put money on it that the rifle has been restored. Looks re-cased to me–even the butt-plate. Screws look like blued replacements as well–I believe original screws were case-colored. Stocks look refinished as well. I personally won’t touch a single gun this seller has with a 10-foot pole. Somewhere along the line, you have to take the seller’s reputation into consideration and this seller has a very bad one. You already claimed that you “can not find guns like this anywhere.” There’s a simple reason for that–if it’s too good to be true, it is. But in the end, it’s your money, not mine (and will never be to this seller).
Don
You do not need to hold that rifle to know it is all redone. Case color is wrong, polish is wrong, bluing is wrong, screws finish and polish are wrong, wood finish is wrong, cleaning rods are wrong.
Wolfbait, that gun is bad news. And his other deluxe 73 is the same. Please be careful.
Austin said
Case color is wrong, polish is wrong, bluing is wrong, screws finish and polish are wrong, wood finish is wrong, cleaning rods are wrong.
Yes, I should hhave also stated the cleaning rod is a modern replacement. Other observations are true. Barrel suggests a rebluing.
Here we go AGAIN!
I can still throw pretty much anything and hit what I’m looking at. Began early in life throwing rocks in the gravel street–rock fights against my neighbor, my best friend Ronnie. He was good too–fifty-six years later, remembering his rocks hitting my head, I still get that metallic taste in my mouth.
But this is a Winchester forum, so I’ll get right to that.
Had a dandy rope back then. I was a good boy, but that didn’t weigh any in my favor when trouble from Mom and Dad rained down on me for roping my little brother. For some reason, he just didn’t cotton to rope burns on his neck.
So, with him gone as a target, I graduated to my uncle’s cows. We were visiting, and the steers were mowing his grass between the house and the barn. While the folks were inside visiting, I sneaked up on a victim. I dropped the loop over his head on the first toss. And same as with my brother, the steer didn’t like it. His reaction–the rope yanked from my hands. And because it was a boy’s extra fancy knot, each time that steer stepped on the rope, the loop tightened and didn’t slack. With the steer’s coughing and complaining, Big Uncle Joe came busting out of the house. Yup, in major trouble again–and no one complimented me on my roping skills.
This process of elimination left me few moving objects to pursue with my rope. Thank goodness young minds are bent toward invention (might be called something else in this case). I hid behind the telephone pole. These days kids don’t have a chance to excel at roping–car bumpers no longer have the vertical risers. The car I had set my sights on had them. As it was passing by, I darted out from hiding, swung the loop, tossed; the rope fell perfectly around the riser. Gave a yank to tighten the noose; me–instantly airborne. I hit the rocks hard, and the rope ran hot through my hands. You know, I can still feel my palms burning! That pain, and being dragged through the gravel, gave me enough of a clue that I had to let go. But my precious rope! I chased that car maybe fifty yards until my rope disappeared over the rise toward downtown.
Did you see the Winchesters in that tale?
It’s like this: I haven’t attempted to rope a car since then. And even if I could hide again behind a telephone pole, I wouldn’t throw my money at a Selling Dad’s auction. I still can hit pretty much whatever I’m aiming at, and winning a Dad’s auction would leave me as before: with trouble, empty handed, and quite burned.
My advice is sell some of you nice Winchesters and buy one “real” high grade Winchester. There is no cheap way in, I have never bought a real high grade Winchester cheap. I, like most collectors pay close to market price for a honest high grade gun hoping some day it will be worth more. Sometimes that happens. Restored guns are not the answer, especially when you pay that kind of price. If you buy a new pickup for 50k and sell it 7yrs later for 12k at least you got to drive it. There are more buyers for your used truck than a restored Winchester. T/R
November 7, 2015
Offline
I agree that this seller seems to acquire some very interesting guns but I also agree that he can’t be trusted. I suspect he has some very good guns but it’s been well established that he’s offered more than a few that appear to be fraudulent.
Mike
FromTheWoods said
Here we go AGAIN!I can still throw pretty much anything and hit what I’m looking at. Began early in life throwing rocks in the gravel street–rock fights against my neighbor, my best friend Ronnie. He was good too–fifty-six years later, remembering his rocks hitting my head, I still get that metallic taste in my mouth.
But this is a Winchester forum, so I’ll get right to that.
Had a dandy rope back then. I was a good boy, but that didn’t weigh any in my favor when trouble from Mom and Dad rained down on me for roping my little brother. For some reason, he just didn’t cotton to rope burns on his neck.
So, with him gone as a target, I graduated to my uncle’s cows. We were visiting, and the steers were mowing his grass between the house and the barn. While the folks were inside visiting, I sneaked up on a victim. I dropped the loop over his head on the first toss. And same as with my brother, the steer didn’t like it. His reaction–the rope yanked from my hands. And because it was a boy’s extra fancy knot, each time that steer stepped on the rope, the loop tightened and didn’t slack. With the steer’s coughing and complaining, Big Uncle Joe came busting out of the house. Yup, in major trouble again–and no one complimented me on my roping skills.
This process of elimination left me few moving objects to pursue with my rope. Thank goodness young minds are bent toward invention (might be called something else in this case). I hid behind the telephone pole. These days kids don’t have a chance to excel at roping–car bumpers no longer have the vertical risers. The car I had set my sights on had them. As it was passing by, I darted out from hiding, swung the loop, tossed; the rope fell perfectly around the riser. Gave a yank to tighten the noose; me–instantly airborne. I hit the rocks hard, and the rope ran hot through my hands. You know, I can still feel my palms burning! That pain, and being dragged through the gravel, gave me enough of a clue that I had to let go. But my precious rope! I chased that car maybe fifty yards until my rope disappeared over the rise toward downtown.
Did you see the Winchesters in that tale?
It’s like this: I haven’t attempted to rope a car since then. And even if I could hide again behind a telephone pole, I wouldn’t throw my money at a Selling Dad’s auction. I still can hit pretty much whatever I’m aiming at, and winning a Dad’s auction would leave me as before: with trouble, empty handed, and quite burned.
It can’t be said any better, or more creatively, then this…………thanks for making my day and enriching us all. I think the group has learned, once again, that this seller is not to be trusted.
I see the price of that fake 1873 1 of 1000 has been knocked down again to $49,997. This rifle was talked about on here in a previous thread.
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/753426576
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-rifles/winchester-1873-1-of-1000-engraved/#p61936
Wolfbait, Guess what, I have S/N 70947 in my gun room; sent April 18, 1881 to order number 25167 with the other gun, same exact features. I’ve had it for twenty years, small world. T/R
“Did you see the Winchesters in that tale?” No I did not. It’s generally best just to say what you mean. Clearly and succinctly.
High grade Winchesters are obviously a tricky business. If this guy would sell them for what they are he would be more successful. Mixed in with the restorations might be some really nice guns. Or maybe not.
wolfbait said
cwachter said
How do you know it is not a restored gun? I don’t buy guns that I can’t pick up and look at. I don’t buy letters or stories either. Many guns out there that were restored to a letter. I am not saying it is restored but buyer beware.Where are you going to go to today where you can pick up and look at a gun like this? Your local gun store? That is why I am asking opinions of this gun. If I buy from Gangel, Julia or RIA I have to rely on the catalog info. Even in person at a major auction you can not do a thorough inspection, and with all the commotion at an auction viewing a quality restoration can be missed. Guys here have discussed the non original guns sold at major auctions. That is why I am asking if anyone sees anything suspect in the 75 pictures shown of this gun. I wish I could have posted the pictures without showing the guys auction so I could get some honest opinions.
I don’t know where you live but you need to go to the auctions like some of the ones you mentioned. Go to the gun shows in Cody, Denver, Las Vegas, Reno, Ohio, Baltimore etc. Get out and look. Pick up every gun you see and talk to everyone you can. It will save you money in the long run. I know it sounds like an oxymoron but there are some honest gun dealers out there. Find one of these and see if he will help you out. I have been collecting for quite a long time and still ask for opinions before I buy.
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