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Steve –
I appreciate your patience in explaining this. I suspect the problem here is I was being dense. But I get it now, you could win the carbine (if you wanted to) and have it shipped to you. Got it.
I will comment, you guys in California have it rough. Not only are there very restrictive laws, regulations (and added expenses) but many sellers are not kind when it comes to CA buyers. I see many advertise that they will not deal with CA residents, period. I think this is unfortunate for many reasons. But, as I understand it (I’m going out on a limb here as my level of understanding can logically be called into question), for California, a transaction for a curio and relic firearm with a C&R holder, is particularly easy when compared to shipping to a regular FFL in California? That is, you can simply ship the C&R firearm to the C&R holder (as you would any other state) vs. the other added tasks associated with shipping to a regular FFL. Am I correct on this?
I realize CA is tough for sellers also (as well as more and more states it seems) but yes, with an 03FFL I can receive a C&R directly. I have to file (online) an acquisition form with the state (and pay them $19 for the privilege) but that’s all on me – seller has no obligation.
These threads are interesting to me because I purchase almost entirely online. Gun shows here are almost all black rifle parts and beef jerky and the local gun store that even carries collectibles charges a huge premium. Supply and demand I guess.
I’m disabled so I don’t travel much (although I do hope to get to the Cody show one day – maybe Reno if it doesn’t decline) so online impressions are everything. I was just trying to relay my opinion based on my experience in this case. Maybe hearing positive feedback on this seller may persuade me to pursue an antique if it’s the right thing for my collection.
I hope to move to Free America before too long as I approach retirement. Then maybe I can enjoy the same purchasing experience as y’all.
Steve
WACA Member. CFM Member. NRA Lifer.
Steve –
Do you have to fill out that on-line acquisition form (and pay the fee) for every single item shipped to you?
Also, with regard to shipping to a California dealer (a regular FFL), I seem to recall there are no extra steps involved if it is coming from a private individual? The additional steps would be invoked when it is coming from another FFL? So, more steps dealer to dealer vs. individual to dealer?
By the way, I fully understand you were simply basing your comments regarding the seller on your experience. Your experience was your experience. The fact that other people’s experience was more pleasant is because they had a different experience. I would have felt put off too. I enjoy a pleasant experience. If I didn’t have one, the fact that someone else did have one, doesn’t change what happened to me. I noted your regret for saying something and I’m sure that’s because you are not someone who is prone to negative comments about others. And I didn’t take it that way. I felt you were simply passing your experience along.
Yep. Every one.
Essentially as an 03FFL I am required to provide CA DOJ with the same info as an 01FFL would on anything they sell. If I purchase a C&R item from an 01FFL (regular gun store) they do their regular paperwork and I don’t have to file. The only advantage there is that my 03FFL lets me bypass the usual 10-day waiting period.
In order for my FFL to be valid I have to hold a CA Certificate of Eligibility (renewed every 5 years if I recall) which is basically a permanent background check. This is the same for any gun store employee as well as lots of other applications (child care workers, certain government workers, etc).
I admit CA is a PITA. Makes me more and more grateful to the out of state sellers who are up to speed. CA isn’t the only oppressive state government when it comes to this sort of thing. I don’t imagine it’s going to get easier.
Steve
WACA Member. CFM Member. NRA Lifer.
Clarence, When I called Craig a dealer that might have been to general. I’m sure he makes his living doing something else. He puts up nice 76 displays at major shows and I always take time to stop and talk guns with him. I value his opinion and sometimes ask for it. This is why I like to go to Gun Shows! T/R
supergimp said
Gun shows here are almost all black rifle parts and beef jerkySteve
I’m in New Mexico and the same holds true here, so I’ve quit going to gun shows altogether. Last year 1 of the 2 guns shops in Albuquerque that carried old Winchesters sold out and the new owners got rid of them as they only want to deal in black guns. For some of us, the internet is the only place left to find old Winchesters, unless one can travel to the big gun shows like Denver and Dallas.
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
Wincacher said
I’m in New Mexico and the same holds true here, so I’ve quit going to gun shows altogether.
Same everywhere, except the few that exclude modern guns, like Baltimore, & even it is a shadow of its former glory 20+ yrs ago. Chief culprit is undoubtedly the internet, for obvious reasons. Why lug your stuff to a show, bear the cost of lodging, gas, etc., when you can sell all over the country without leaving home? Then there’s the added benefit, if the gun has any problems, that all the photos in the world ain’t the same as holding the gun in your hand.
The cost of this convenience is that the “educational experience” that most shows, not just the “Denvers,” used to be has been lost for good.
November 7, 2015
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Wincacher said
Eagle said
Also I disagree with saying that the buyer had 784 feedback on GB so he should have known better. There are a lot of folks out there that will never “get it” with gun conditioning, I don’t care how many they look at. It doesn’t mean their stupid,Never said he was stupid. What I specifically said was that he screened in the gun so it would be what he wanted it to be and ignored all the red flags.
Been there, done that, still waiting on the t-shirt.
Mike
November 7, 2015
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TR said
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/769661924 Steve, Here is a nice honest first model 73 carbine on Gun Broker by a honest dealer. He’s taken lots of good pictures, 136 to be exact. If everyone did it like this buying would be easy. First model carbines in this condition are rare, worth a look. T/R
Couldn’t agree more. I suspect I could tell more about this carbine from his pics than from handling it. Apparently he doesn’t have a bore camera but from what I’ve seen of this guy’s listings I’d trust his description. And no, I’ve never met, done business with or had the pleasure of speaking with this person.
Mike
Couldn’t agree more. I suspect I could tell more about this carbine from his pics than from handling it.
I agree with this statement. His photos are excellent. Austinguns is another seller who posts excellent photos. Jackthedog (on gunauction) as well.
On the topic of photos, this last Christmas, someone gave me a clamp on 3 piece lens set for my cell phone (of all things). One of those lens allows me to get amazingly close – like a half inch – to the item. And the clear detail of those close-up photos is much superior to my naked eye examination.
Clarence, I see your point, I guess I’m fortunate to live in the Midwest. To me gun shows are social events, I load up the vehicle along with a couple friends and start driving. We talk guns all the way there and all the way back, never turn on the radio. It’s a guy’s weekend out, good meals, few drinks and a gun show. A 7 hour drive is nice but a 12 hour drive is do-able. For me Tulsa is the best, then Sioux Falls in Feb. and then certain Louisville Shows. We still have some good local shows but times are changing. I wouldn’t do a show alone. T/R
I can assure you, by saying that Craig Zink is first and foremost a collector. Like most of us, we weren’t born with a silver spoon in our mouths, so we have to buy and sell to afford to acquire things for our collections. He is a very picky and astute collector. His passion is the model 1876, but he does have a few other models that do turn his crank. Whether or not he is an NRA member or Benefactor is really a moot point. You don’t have to be either, to enjoy or have a love for the collecting of antique firearms. If you’ve never met him or had dealings with him, how can you be so suspicious of his motives for selling on GB?
win4575 said
Whether or not he is an NRA member or Benefactor is really a moot point. You don’t have to be either, to enjoy or have a love for the collecting of antique firearms.
Doing your share to protect our 2nd Amendment rights, again under attack as they haven’t been in years, is a moot point? The point isn’t whether one HAS to be a member to enjoy antique firearms–obviously not–but whether one SHOULD be as a moral obligation. Freeloaders can always find excuses for allowing others to shoulder the load.
I may be wrong about his motives for selling on GB, but I’m not wrong about the majority of the others.
I didn’t say that protecting our 2nd Amendment rights was a moot point. What I did say was pretty plain. You don’t have to be an NRA member to enjoy collecting antique guns. Protecting our Constitution as a whole, is one of the most important things we can do as American citizens. I am an NRA life member and as far as I know, Craig is too.
Getting back to the original post and the active auction for this fine ’73 carbine – I’d like to hear some thoughts people have as to what the winning bid will be.
November 7, 2015
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If you’re not talking about the OP (1886) but rather the later one (1873 First Model Carbine) I’m thinking anything under $10K would be a bargain. Quite honestly I’m just guessing and I suspect I’m a fair bit low.
Mike
TXGunNut said
If you’re not talking about the OP (1886) but rather the later one (1873 First Model Carbine) I’m thinking anything under $10K would be a bargain. Quite honestly I’m just guessing and I suspect I’m a fair bit low.
Mike
Mike – thanks for your thoughts. Yes, I was referring to the ’73 Carbine. Other’s thoughts?
With 8 days to go the bidding has already been driven up to over $4,600. It never ceases to amaze me how buyers needlessly drive up the price by bidding against each other days (in this case, weeks) ahead of the auction’s close. My guess is that this carbine will go close to $15,000.
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
Wincacher said
With 8 days to go the bidding has already been driven up to over $4,600. It never ceases to amaze me how buyers needlessly drive up the price by bidding against each other days (in this case, weeks) ahead of the auction’s close.
Amazes me, too, but what do you mean 8 days? Due to GB’s “30 min” rule, it can go on eternally, if bids keep coming in.
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