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June 13, 2025
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I picked up a very nice Pre-64 Model 70 in 22-3000 R2 Lovell. Once I got it home I started looking through the parts and have some questions. Serial number in the 23,5xx range, date code on barrel from 1938?
First is the barrel markings. The barrel is a standard 22 Hornet, but I can’t see where they ever stamped the caliber. It does have the 22-3000 R2 stamp closer to the receiver, but it doesn’t look like the barrel was ground down anywhere to remove the 22 Hornet stamp. Was it possible to order these un-chambered?
Also, it came with a Weaver 330 in a Stith Mount, but the scope is completely trashed. I’d like to put a Unertl on it, but need help finding the correct height blocks. It looks like a P1 rear, and a cross dovetail BK for the front. Can anyone confirm these?
August 8, 2024
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The barrel has the mail order proof mark. From what I can tell is that it was a mail ordered .22 Hornet barrel that was converted to the .22-3000. A common thing to have done back in the 1950s.
June 13, 2025
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Were the early 22 Hornet barrels 0.223″ or 0.224″? And 16 twist, or 14 twist?
August 8, 2024
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The twist is 1-16. I have always thought it to be .223. Now, Rule says .222. I have heard others state .224. So, take your pick!
March 31, 2009
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MSU Marksman said
I picked up a very nice Pre-64 Model 70 in 22-3000 R2 Lovell. Once I got it home I started looking through the parts and have some questions. Serial number in the 23,5xx range, date code on barrel from 1938?
First is the barrel markings. The barrel is a standard 22 Hornet, but I can’t see where they ever stamped the caliber. It does have the 22-3000 R2 stamp closer to the receiver, but it doesn’t look like the barrel was ground down anywhere to remove the 22 Hornet stamp. Was it possible to order these un-chambered?
Also, it came with a Weaver 330 in a Stith Mount, but the scope is completely trashed. I’d like to put a Unertl on it, but need help finding the correct height blocks. It looks like a P1 rear, and a cross dovetail BK for the front. Can anyone confirm these?
Get a pure lead ball about .4″ and slug your barrel. If you use a ball that is too small the slug will come out round instead of elongated. Use wooden dowels that are smaller in diameter than the bore. I use 1 ft sections and a brass hammer.
November 5, 2014
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Hi MSU-
That’s an interesting barrel…
Winchester did, in their parts catalog, offer unchambered barrel “blanks” for the M54 (below), so they were catering to the cartridge enthusiast/developer. But the barrel on your M70 has the “WP” definitive proof as well as the “circle P” mail order proof, suggesting it was originally chambered in something, albeit not marked.
I’d bet it was a 22 HORNET barrel ordered without caliber mark by someone planning a custom re-chambering… The “22H” under barrel stamp denotes 22 Hornet.
FWIW, the barrel specs in 1938 are in the blueprint below… 22 HORNET bore 0.217″, groove diameter 0.222″, 6-groove, twist 1 in 16″…
IIRC… Pre-war M70s (without drilled bridge) could be scoped with a Lyman BK code cross dovetail block in the rear sight dovetail and the usual 0.185″ tall block on the FRONT receiver ring… Kind of like this pre-war set-up I did with a Lyman 438 Field Scope on an undrilled 1939 30 GOV’T’06 Standard rifle…
Best,
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
December 9, 2002
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More great information Louis!
Anthony
November 8, 2011
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Are you that the old caliber mark wasn’t polished off the barrel?
June 13, 2025
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Thanks for all the info so far.
I know the short scope mounting won’t be ideal, but it allows me more magnification that the Stith mounted Weaver 330.
I think Prvi makes some .222″ bullets. Otherwise I have some .223″ Hornet bullets to try.
August 8, 2024
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I have used the .223 diameter bullets in my Hornets with good results. I have some Hornady .222 diameter bullets for a .22 Jet. Never thought of using them in my Hornets. But, might try them.
April 15, 2005
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I shoot .224 bullets in all my Hornet rifles with great success. In recent years, I have developed loads using the Hornady 35-gr V-Max that I shoot in my Model 43 (12 grains of Lil’Gun), and Model 70 K-Hornet (14.0 grains of Lil’Gun). I haven’t tried shooting them in my recently acquired Model 54 rifle yet… later this Spring I will see how they shoot.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
July 3, 2020
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I can vouch for Bert’s great shooting success. Here’s a pic of his target…. 
. 
Bert… I’m sorry… something came over me…. I’ll buy you a dish of Huckleberry ice cream at the Cody BBQ to make amends.
May 23, 2009
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Well either he needs some new glasses, a new rest, or a new barrel. Or least the very least some new blood pressure medicine.
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
April 15, 2005
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Maverick said
Well either he needs some new glasses, a new rest, or a new barrel. Or least the very least some new blood pressure medicine.
Just had cataract surgery last year, rests are for sissies, and the barrel is just fine… what Ben neglected to tell you, is that was a 600-yd group, and those little 35-gr V-Max bullets get very flighty beyond 250-yrds on a breezy day.
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
March 31, 2009
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Bert H. said
Maverick said
Well either he needs some new glasses, a new rest, or a new barrel. Or least the very least some new blood pressure medicine.
Just had cataract surgery last year, rests are for sissies, and the barrel is just fine… what Ben neglected to tell you, is that was a 600-yd group, and those little 35-gr V-Max bullets get very flighty beyond 250-yrds on a breezy day.
July 3, 2020
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I blame the Dodge…. Excess Diesel fumes causing his erratic ocular myopia..
April 15, 2005
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Ben said
I blame the Dodge…. Excess Diesel fumes causing his erratic ocular myopia..
Hey, a small dose of Nitric oxide is actually good for your health… it relaxes blood vessels and helps reduce blood pressure!
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
November 7, 2015
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Some of us crowd all our rounds into one little spot, others paid for the whole dang target and by golly we’re going to use it!
Mike
May 23, 2009
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Bert,
You aught to practice more, you should be able to cover up your thumbnail at 600 yards! 
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
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