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Gas-checked bullets for 1873 and 1892 .38 WCF Winchesters
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January 25, 2018 - 6:53 am
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For those of you who may want to shoot .38-40 gas-checked bullets in your rifles and carbines, we now have a source:  Bull Shop Bullets out of Dell, Montana.  https://bullshop.weebly.com/bullets.html –and select “MORE.”

The time from placing your order to the bullets’ delivery is at most a few weeks.  (With one supplier I waited around six months for their bullets–dandy bullets, though!)  With Bull Shop, tailoring a bullet to your use and communication during the process is easy–excellent.

I don’t intend to drive these fast out of our 1873.  Those of you with ’92’s might find they are a good lead bullet for higher velocities than we ’73 shooters employ.

——————–

Recently I’ve been testing these in my (in Great-grandpa’s) ’73.  The bore of this rifle is not so good, and the plain-based bullets I tried were inaccurate.  In the past, after a few years of trying several manufacturers and bullets of varied hardness, we settled on a load using Oregon Trail bullets.  They performed well enough to harvest close-in deer.  After that, I would occasionally do more testing.  The accuracy from the Oregon Trail loads was not sufficient for me to neck shoot deer.  Colorblindness–I can’t see a blood trail, so I shoot to drop deer on the spot.  And I appreciate hunting with this ’73, so I decided the rifle needed a load with filler or a gas-checked bullet–and I prefer to not use fillers. 

In shooting this week, the gas-checked bullets held tight groups–A great relief.  The notes on the load finally made it into my recipe box.  Yesterday was a fine day; loaded a few hundred more cartridges for the ’73.  (Also going to be shooting them from the family’s Colt SAA’s)

—-And no, this is not a commercial, and I am merely a pleased customer.–

The Bull Shop has supplied us with bullets for our 1894’s.  To date, we use their bullets for shooting and hunting in three of the five original ’94 calibers. The fourth caliber’s bullets are from another supplier.  And the last one, I’ll be testing soon with Bull Shop’s bullets.

An 1873 .32 WCF in our family sprayed and tumbled plain-based bullets.  Its bore is awful.  The Bull Shop’s .32-20 gas-checked are extremely accurate out of it–As in really, really, really, positively super accccuuuuurrrate!

—-Still, not a commercial.–

     

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January 25, 2018 - 3:50 pm
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So which bullet do you use?  I reload my own 38-40’s so I checked the site.  Nothing listed under 38 caliber so I checked under 40 caliber and didn’t find anything in .401 with gas check, nor anything in .401 and 180 grains.  Looks like one needs to look up each different mold manufacturer’s specs to see what the bullet looks like.

40 Caliber  ~  Mountain Mould   ~  .403   ~  175 grains  ~  FNGC – with Crimp Groove  ??

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January 25, 2018 - 9:27 pm
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Bull-Shop-Bullets-.38-40-2.jpgImage Enlarger40 Caliber ~ Mountain Mould ~ .403 ~ 175 grains ~ FNGC – with Crimp Groove

This is the .38-40 bullet I use. With the gas-check and lube, it weighs 178-9 grains. For our guns, the bullet is sized to .402 with the gas-check a bit larger.

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January 26, 2018 - 6:52 am
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Dan (Bull Shop) is a great guy but IME a gas check is not necessary for 38WCF (or 32WCF) bullets. If you’ll tell him what you need I’ll bet he can cast it. Last I heard he lives somewhat off-grid so he may take a few days to respond to queries. Most commercial cast bullets are too hard or undersized (or both) to bump up and seal a rough bore in a vintage rifle. Dan knows this and casts accordingly. Personally I use an Accurate mould (40-180C) with good results in an 1873 that looks like it shouldn’t be able to hit the broad side of a barn.

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January 26, 2018 - 3:00 pm
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I’ve had excellent  results over the years with the old Lyman 40143 mold and more recently with the RCBS 40-180-FN molds.  More recently I’ve discovered Berry’s Hollow Base Coated bullets in 40 Cal (.401), 155 grains, for SAA shooting.  They work on the principle of the old minie balls and expand as the travel down the barrel, so the bore diameter isn’t that crucial to accuracy.  Unfortunately, they only come in RN shape, so they have to be fired single shot in a Winchester, though I haven’t tested them that way yet.

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January 28, 2018 - 1:00 pm
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FromTheWoods said
For those of you who may want to shoot .38-40 gas-checked bullets in your rifles and carbines, we now have a source:  Bull Shop Bullets out of Dell, Montana.  https://bullshop.weebly.com/bullets.html –and select “MORE.”

The time from placing your order to the bullets’ delivery is at most a few weeks.  (With one supplier I waited around six months for their bullets–dandy bullets, though!)  With Bull Shop, tailoring a bullet to your use and communication during the process is easy–excellent.

I don’t intend to drive these fast out of our 1873.  Those of you with ’92’s might find they are a good lead bullet for higher velocities than we ’73 shooters employ.

——————–

Recently I’ve been testing these in my (in Great-grandpa’s) ’73.  The bore of this rifle is not so good, and the plain-based bullets I tried were inaccurate.  In the past, after a few years of trying several manufacturers and bullets of varied hardness, we settled on a load using Oregon Trail bullets.  They performed well enough to harvest close-in deer.  After that, I would occasionally do more testing.  The accuracy from the Oregon Trail loads was not sufficient for me to neck shoot deer.  Colorblindness–I can’t see a blood trail, so I shoot to drop deer on the spot.  And I appreciate hunting with this ’73, so I decided the rifle needed a load with filler or a gas-checked bullet–and I prefer to not use fillers. 

In shooting this week, the gas-checked bullets held tight groups–A great relief.  The notes on the load finally made it into my recipe box.  Yesterday was a fine day; loaded a few hundred more cartridges for the ’73.  (Also going to be shooting them from the family’s Colt SAA’s)

—-And no, this is not a commercial, and I am merely a pleased customer.–

The Bull Shop has supplied us with bullets for our 1894’s.  To date, we use their bullets for shooting and hunting in three of the five original ’94 calibers. The fourth caliber’s bullets are from another supplier.  And the last one, I’ll be testing soon with Bull Shop’s bullets.

An 1873 .32 WCF in our family sprayed and tumbled plain-based bullets.  Its bore is awful.  The Bull Shop’s .32-20 gas-checked are extremely accurate out of it–As in really, really, really, positively super accccuuuuurrrate!

—-Still, not a commercial.–

       

Very interesting information.  Can I ask what powder you are using?  I agree with the comments made that you shouldn’t need a gas check bullet in old rifles like these but I also believe the proof is in the pudding.  You are clearly achieving better accuracy with these bullets.  Are you driving them faster than the previous bullets you had used?

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January 28, 2018 - 8:39 pm
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I’ve settled on Titegroup. I was trying to get away from Titegroup in order to use a powder closer to a Black-powder pressure curve. It consistently out performed the other powders. Called the Hodgden people around a year ago, and they assured me it was safe in these guns. Still tried a couple more powders after that.

I tried Trail Boss that so many folks are having success with in this caliber. Loading 5.5 gr which is the maximum recommended, the performance was pretty bad–wimpy and scattered bullets.

RL-7 worked wonderfully in the .32-20, but was problematic in the .38-40. Likely too slow of a burn.

Tried Unique long ago, and it shot alright, but not as accurately as the Titegroup.

My testing for this rifle has spanned a couple decades, and no combination of plain-base bullet and powder at varied weight, hardness, and speed shot as accurately as I wanted the rifle to shoot. Through it all, I too believed a plain-base would function well. From reading the advice and success other folks were having with plain-based bullets, and my having tried many combinations that should have worked, I finally figured I had tested enough of them to move beyond the search for a plain-based load.

I am quite pleased that I did. Yesterday I shot the ’73 out at a pond we have. The stobs of dead, small Alder trees poke up above the water. At sixty yards the rifle was consistently cutting off these 3/4 inch sticks.

Looks as if I’ll be hunting deer this year with this rifle.  That will be satisfying, moving through the woods while thinking of Great-grandpa, Grandpa, and Dad.

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January 28, 2018 - 11:49 pm
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Nothing wrong with Titegroup; works well in your rifle and when all the research and networking is done what your rifle likes is all that matters. As an added bonus it will likely cost less per round to shoot than my personal favorites for this round. Titegroup is one of Venturino’s favorite powders for this class of cartridges so you’re not in uncharted territory.

As a bullet caster I know there are hundreds of different ways to use cast bullets in a 38WCF but you’ve found something that seems to work, no need to re-invent the wheel just to save a few pennies on a gas check. I’ve run into a similar situation with a 38-55, even with a good bore it prefers a GC bullet even over an identical plain base bullet design, lube and sizing diameter. The 38-55 and 38-40, as cartridges, have little need for gas checks. Unfortunately rifles seem to have personalities and preferences, but that’s what makes them interesting.

Sounds like you’ve got it figured out. Now you need to make your ancestors proud by taking their old rifle to the field again. 

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January 29, 2018 - 3:34 am
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Thanks, Texas, for your information that TG is safe in these old guns.

Some of my favorite and most memorable hunts are those from my teens and 20’s, hunting with this ’73.  Back then, I used store-bought jacketed cartridges.  Quite expensive!  Did I mention, his rifle has a unique scent to it?  Helps the memories flow.

It is rare in the Willamette Valley to get snow that stays a couple of days–even more rare to get it during hunting season.  I was hunting just off the Valley floor, side-hilling through the maples, ferns, and not too much brush, headed around to the southern exposure where the oaks dropped their acorns. The day was unusually cold; so cold that I wore a scarf around my neck and up over my nose.  Well, I’d better call it a “muffler” so my super manliness doesn’t suffer in your eyes.  So I was silent in the snow in my muffler and cradling our family’s old Winchester.  Since I was fresh from reading Outdoor Life and Sports Afield, I was imagining monster bucks–I was going to cut a track and slip up on a bruiser, just like those folks do in northern Michigan and EVERYWHERE in Canada.

I’d been pausing and lingering along the way; taking some of these moments to fish out my handkerchief.  My 18 or so nose needed attention like an old old man’s nose!–wouldn’t stop.  BUUUuuuuuut, I became lazy or absent minded–gave a quiet, yet abrupt sniff, and Whoosh! the doe shot out of her bed and in a few bounds was gone.  I’d been nearly on top of her.

Didn’t get any buck that day, but I can still see her launching out of her bed and gliding, vivid above the snow.  And that was 45 years ago.  The woods held a deep silence that day.  The snow offered new facets to the hunt.  Something more was there in that hunt; the peace still can be felt.

Now, to ensure that my super manliness stays polished–On other hunts, I did tip over bucks with Great-grandpa’s rifle.  There are more good shots with it on other critters, but if I told about them, it might appear I was a braggart or that I was a flat out liar.  So,,,,,No,,,,,I ain’t a-talkin’ no more.,,,,,Nope.

Except to say, the two hunts when our youngest son shot his first and second deer with this rifle are pleasures to relive.

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