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I just purchased a Letter of Authenticity so we’ll see what that says. I bought through online auction a Model 1892 SRC 25-20 serial number 395471. It was listed as a 1906 although using the free web services they say 1907. I have mailed payment but not taken delivery. I’m home recovering from a recent car accident surgery and had nothing to do except shop around for guns!
My biggest concern is the saddle ring is not on the rifle. The very first sentence says: “I have the saddle ring and it will ship with the rifle. The rifle was an old ranch rifle and the ring scared away game so the previous owner removed it.”
The seller has owned the rifle since the 60’s. I felt confident buying because seller was selling his entire collection which was pretty incredible. Many NIB 50+ year old rifles and an A+ rating.
I’ve been combing the internet trying to figure out how the ring staple is attached whether threaded, riveted, or welded. Same with the ring, was it solid? I don’t want an after market split ring, if you have a SRC the saddle ring is pretty important. What options did the rancher have to remove the ring? I’m now guessing a hacksaw or bolt cutters! I have requested a ring photo from the seller that I have not yet received.
I’m not feeling good about this now, if the year of the rifle is wrong and a once solid ring was cut I think I should get a refund.
Any info on staple and ring r&r would be much appreciated!
Thanks,Eddie
Eddie,
The serial number makes it a mid-year 1907 production SRC. Where did you purchase a “letter of authenticity”? The serial number you mention is too late (outside the available range) to get a factory letter for.
Is just the ring removed, or the entire staple & ring? The ring is split so that it can be installed on the staple then closed back up.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
I purchased letter from Bill Cody Center. Only SNA info so it was $40. 4 weeks to receive.
The staple is in place. I haven’t seen photo of ring yet so I’m not sure if it’s mangled. As long as it’s not I should be ok then. I just wasn’t sure if it was solid.
All of the blueing is gone from this rifle. Looks like it came of the saddle 60 years ago. Owner said years of wd40 stripped it. No visible rust in photos.
I really don’t get the patina thing in vehicles or anything else. I have a 40 year old race boat and harley that both look showroom as do all of my rifles.
Ive read some posts and it sounds like if I follow my impulse to perfectly restore this rifle I will kill the value. How can no blueing be of value? Like I said I don’t get the patina thing.
eddie_albert said
I purchased letter from Bill Cody Center. Only SNA info so it was $40. 4 weeks to receive.
The letter you purchased is not a letter of “authentication”. Instead, it is only going to provide you with the exact date that the serial number was applied to the receiver frame. It does not provide any of the “as built” configuration information.
The owner (in my opinion) is not being honest with you. WD40 will not remove factory bluing. Refinishing any old (original) Winchester is detrimental to its value. That stated, and based on your description of the gun, it does not have a lot of value in its present condition. Refinishing it will most likely not hurt the value much, but it is not going to increase its value either. From a “collector’s” standpoint, you would be much better off not buying that gun, and put your money in a higher condition original specimen. Collectible firearms are not like old automobiles or motorcycles… restoring them seldom ever pays dividends.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Got it! Live and learn. I got wrapped up in the auction. I only paid $20 more than 2 other hi volume buyers so I thought I was ok.
My favorite tv show growing up was the rifleman. I always wanted a large ring 44-40 1892 but those are big big bucks so I want to work my way up.
Thank you!
At least you won’t feel bad about shooting it and packing it around. I have some that never leave the house due to the high percentage of original condition remaining. Others in lesser condition get used and hunted with.
Shoot low boys. They're riding Shetland Ponies.
Hello Eddie,
I saw that rifle on Gunbroker earlier this month when it was for sale out of Huntertown, IN. All of the bluing has been purposefully removed from the gun and you can see the minor scratch marks in the metal asa result. The wood was also removed at some time sanded and refinished. When the fore end was put back on the screw in the barrel band was inserted from the wrong side. Is there a small tab on the magazine end cap which fits into a slot on the underside of the barrel right at the muzzle or is it perfectly round?
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
Yep. Let The Buyer Beware!
I paid for it but Im not accepting delivery. The missing saddle ring that he has per the ad, now he doesn’t know where it is. I have been asking for photos since the day after the auction via email and no response so I called and he can’t find it.
I can’t trust now that any ring he comes up with is original or some eBay clone.
I feel based upon the year and no saddle ring it was misrepresented so I’m ready to duke it out.
Online
I looked at the auction and I don’t think the seller has done anything wrong. If you’re having second thoughts on it, I think I’d ask the seller to let you off the hook before he ships it. If he can’t find the saddle ring, that’s not a huge problem. There are many available for somewhere in the $30 range. You could ask him to pay for one for you. I think your second thoughts on it are going to look like buyer’s remorse and will probably get you negative feedback on Gunbroker.
My main issue is the year. It was posted as a 1906 and it’s a 1907. I admit I’m a dummie but the seller had over 400 A+ sales.
That’s what the seller said.
Im going to sell you a 1969 roadrunner that is missing the original hurst shift knob but I have it. And by the way it’s actually a 1970 and I don’t have the shift knob but you can buy a fake one on eBay. Is that ok?
I’m not trying to give you a hard time. If you don’t like the gun, then you should do what you think best. I’d try and work it out amicably with the seller. Getting it resolved before he ships would probably be best. Refusing delivery is going to make it a more contentious deal.
But, the problems that you’re raising on the gun are very different than the comparison to a classic car.
I don’t know a single collector that would raise an issue over the difference of 1906 and 1907. The seller clearly shows the serial number in one of the photos. He’s not trying to mislead anyone. He probably looked at a different source for the date or misread the table.
It is easy to acquire a 100% original Winchester ring from that era at a pretty minimal cost. You could have the seller do all the leg work and show you that he’s found an original ring and not a repo. Or, tell him that you’ll need $100 for the ring being missing.
I certainly agree with SB that the 1906 vs. 1907 is inconsequential to collectors. I don’t think the written description of the piece is off as basically he states it had been a working ranch rifle before he acquired it. I don’t doubt the truthfulness of that statement. If he does ship the piece and but can’t find the saddle ring, he is not fulfilling what is promised. It might be a small issue to some and you could choose to suggest a price adjustment – if that’s what you want to do. You could choose to not pursue alternative options and that would be within your legitimate prerogative. Let me ask you this – if you accept that the 1906 vs. 1907 is not consequential, and if he gave you a price adjustment to purchase a ring – would you still want this carbine?
Thanks gentlemen. All I can say is I fulfilled my obligation as a buyer and sent payment immediately. After the seller would not respond to my request for a photo of the ring I became suspicious. After seeking ring info I became aware of the year issue. See the beginning of this thread. The seller now won’t communicate at all. I’m totally willing to work out a deal bit that takes 2 parties. This is what the website says about selling.
““ 2) Misrepresentation: The Seller intentionally or unintentionally made representations in the Listing about the Item that were inaccurate, or the Seller intentionally or unintentionally caused or allowed the Buyer to believe facts about the item offered by the Seller that were inaccurate or untrue.”
If you didn’t post about the gun here after you purchased it and then asked for and received opinions on the gun that you probably really didn’t want to hear from some very knowledgeable collectors, my sense is that you would have lived happily ever after with the gun.
That is possible, although I was on a mission to learn about the saddle ring. In that quest I discovered the model year discrepancy.
I’m old school and run my business on handshakes. If I call something a duck it better walk like one and quack! This was my first experience buying this old of a so called collector rifle and will be my last. I’ll lick my wounds and move on. It’s surprising to me to hear how much forgiveness their is for a seller misrepresenting a sale. I’ll bet whoever insures your collection thinks that the year of manufacture matters. Good thing for the sellers there will be many more dummies like me to come along. But this dummy is out!
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